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Juboboman

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Customer loyalty, especially the type that PDS has earned over the past many years is something very rare and very hard to acquire. To the point where people were even buying previous DLC they had no interest in playing, just to help development of future products. It boils down to trust. Many fans have trusted Paradox to be a competent developer that listens, and most importantly cares about what their customers think.

Unfortunately I am noticing a trend recently of PDS displaying what I can find no other word to describe than contempt toward the fans. It's bad enough to have some of the severely misguided design decisions that we have seen over the past few patches, ultimately peaking with 1.6. Changes that inevitably end up having to be hotfixed/reverted away. But what's more disturbing is the response from the spokesmen from the company on these forums. I'm seeing an arrogance that I've not seen from PDS before. Posts telling players to l2p, and declaring that the testers found nothing wrong with the product (implication being the problem must be with us), or making statements like "just let the rebels win".

I feel like the respect that PDS displayed toward its customers in the past is gone, and that perhaps the success of the past few years has gone to their head and they now think themselves better than they are. That in the past when a decision was met with universal disagreement, we would be met with an explanation, maybe even an apology, and eventually a change back to what the playerbase found fun. Now we are met with what seems like scorn, 1 liners, and dismissal.

This emerging attitude is incredibly dangerous, especially to a developer like Paradox that relies on the unique relationship and loyalty it has with its fans. It is not something that is easy to get back once lost, and it's worrying to see Paradox going toward the dismissive "our way or pound sand" attitude that certain other bigger developers have adopted. You're not EA. You're not Activision. Don't get ahead of yourselves and start acting like them because you don't have the playerbase they do. For better or worse you are a niche developer that owes its success to a small, dedicated, and loyal fanbase. And while that fanbase can be forgiving for design decisions that don't work (no one is perfect), one thing they won't be forgiving of is having their complaints dismissed and laughed off by a developer that suddenly has gotten a big head due to the success brought by that very fanbase.
 

Mamluke

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*claps with pride in is eyes*

you could have not said it better jubo.

may I put here a little song I wrote in inspiration with the forums? its a parody of Davids gueta :D

perhaps its best to keep this thread very serious though?
 

IIWW

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You're right, I haven't seen many other game forums where players really wanted to make some features into DLC, for devs to get money. Thats something rare, and they cannot loose it. We are willing to pay, but don't destroy games we like. You can have Your vission, You are developers so thats obvious You's have one, but You can't just turn blind on your FANS (not just clients, I always though of myself as Your fan, not just smn who's buying Your stuff). You can't say "that's because You're not using HT". We dislike the changes, and all You have to say is "change Your gaming style". With all due respect, if I wanted to do that, I'd play a different game. If I wanted a tall empire, I'd play Civilization. Here I want a freaking wide one, and as far as I see most of us want it.
 

Hootieleece

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I just bought WoN out of loyalty......have yet to play it.........might go back to Football Manager......I am not even really a soccer fan! But the game is good as a strategy game.
 

unmerged(225193)

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Pretty spot on. The casual player can't be depended on to stick around, but now I don't think loyal players can be either. You can only treat people poorly for so long before they wise up and move on.
 

Mamluke

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if life has teach me anything is this:
if you let people treat you like trash.
people will treat you like trash.

So, willing to threat your fans like no-bodies PDS? for how long?
 

Casus_Belli

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From my experience, all developers go through 4 stages:

1. getting people to like them
2.keeping those people happy
3.thinking those people will stay whatever happens, so they start acting like idiot
4.wondering where all the people went
 

hwoosh

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It's really just Johan. He's always had this brusque, monosyllabic manner when responding to forum threadsAFAIK. When what he's saying is right, it can be amusing. When what he's saying is dead wrong, it's arrogant and infuriating. And then he goes on interviews with gaming journalists and talks about the great relationship and respect PDS has with and for their fans. :rolleyes:

Whenever I go read threads in the CK2, HOI4, Runemaster forums etc., the devs there are usually lovely. :)
 

lordgoof

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Paradox needed a threadnaught to tell them that one of their marketing ideas was dumb. It must suck when the developers of a game are more clueless about a game than the players. Certainly glad that I woke up to all this forum chatter before buying the dlc. Your not going to rip me off again paradox as I'm not going to give you any more money.
 

rebelde

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Paradox needs to push back the development of whatever DLC they have already planned for next fall and start working on the mess they have done in this patch. If they don't I don't see their next DLC selling much.
 

TolHydra

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Yeah, WoN/1.6 isn't that bad, and the faults in it as annoying as they may be are not something that is difficult to fix. About the attitude, the outrage on the forum about the patches have been going around for nearly all of them and quite frankly, I think they're as sick as we're. I'd give it sometime.
 

Palfouri

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Who cares. This is just a latest in the example of Paradox noting giving a damn to thei fans and just do what the EA and the Ubisoft do, and which is "play our experience or get out". I am surprise they do not crack down on modding, they just want people to play the game their way and do not care about anything else. THE PARADOX I KNOW would not make 75$ of DLC for they games but that is the world we live in. They got a taste of the big time thank to crusader kings 2 and now they are going to milk the drop until they have lsot all loyal fans like me and are back to makin board games. I would laugh to see Europa Universalis board game, with rules as bad as the game, ha ha ha.

Dispecable that a game played most in SINGLE PLAYER is balance in multiplayer game with 36 humans.
 

kebzero

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Didn't Paradox split some time ago? One half became the game developer, and the other half the game publisher? I'm starting to think the two halves of Paradox have different agendas, and that comes out to hurt us, the customers - that is to say, I have this feeling that the Developer half knew things weren't quite ready, but the Publisher half had set a release date and demanded it be upheld, regardless the state of the product.

That is very common in the game industry in general, whenever a Publisher has the final word in when a game ships. It's not "when it's done." It is "when we need more fresh money."

I refuse to believe no one in the QA staff saw any sort of problem with the build that got released. I'll gladly believe the publisher half forced a release that wasn't ready.

Of course... Paradox also has a history of constantly making changes right up to release. Might be they tossed in some last minute 'fixes' that caused trouble galore, say a multiplier where it was supposed to be a plus, or a 0.1 where it was supposed to be a 0.001 value with regards to rebel quantity and AE gain. Even now, I want to give Paradox the benefit of the doubt, but it's getting harder with every patch of EU4.
 
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