Yet Another Win Using Hyper Drives

[Mitroll]

Did you bother to read the naysayer quotes at the beginning of the thread? I hate when people complain about a tech not being playable because that opinion is very subjective, and may give new players a false impression.

I just went back and read your unattributed 'quotes', and I don't see how you've proven anything at all. None of those quotes, assuming they're even real, say that it's impossible to win a game with hyperlanes.

Hyperlanes are still underpowered. There's just no reason to choose hyperlanes over the other options.

 

[Erei]

Did you bother to read the naysayer quotes at the beginning of the thread? I hate when people complain about a tech not being playable because that opinion is very subjective, and may give new players a false impression.

So far he only said Hyperlane are subpar, he never said you can't win. You are the one being adamant trying to prove something we all agree with.

I won a game using kinetic and battleship back when everyone was using 100% evasion corvettes and tachyon lance destroyer, I didn't made a topic about it. I knew I could win with it, but I also knew kinetic was terrible back then.

 

[mangalore]

I must admit I consider the FTL methods individual game modes aka I restrict most plays to one type so all empires have the same challenges. In that scenario hyperdrive is intersting although the border system is flawed (as it bypasses hyperlanes which is nonsensical)

 

[happyscrub]

This is my third straight win using hyper drives in a spiral arm galaxy, this time under 1.4.1. Since missiles are the "broken" weapon equivalent to hyper drives, I decided to fight with two arms tied behind my back. I used hyper drives throughout the game even though I salvaged jump drives and had the opportunity to research psi-jump drives. Other than point defences, I used the missile line of weapons exclusively (missiles and explosive torpedoes). No energy or kinetic weapons at all. Hyper dives and missiles are definitely the most challenging to play, but you can still win. You might even have fun if you allow yourself not to be bothered by playing with "unbalanced" technologies.

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Winnable =/= balanced

 

[Fenris_SE]

I'm still pretty new so my opinion is from a newbies perspective (well mine anyway).

I actually like all 3:
Warp was the easiest one (as intended I suppose) and the cool down didn't seem so bad, but that may be because I play on "fast" game speed until I get into combat then I slow it down. Although looking at the spiral arm next to me with a hostile empire that was rated as "pathetic" and knowing I would never get there until I was able to unlock warp II or III was a bit annoying.

Wormholes I had mixed feelings about. It was nice starting a new game and having my 3 corvettes jump into and out of every system in range in a pretty short amount of time so I could see where to send my science ships (the corvettes were just locating planets for my science ships to scan). Making the wormhole stations was pretty painless. I did notice the jumps taking longer and longer to spool up as my fleet got bigger and was wondering how long it'd take to jump when I had a fleet in the hundreds. I never got the chance to find out though as an empire crushed me pretty early on.

Hyper Drives I hated at first. I didn't seem to jump any faster than using warp (it's possible I didn't pay enough attention to how long war takes), I was restricted on where I could go. I had some enemies (some pirate faction/empire) that had about 20k fleet strength near my starting area that made my trip even longer. I also ran into some other empires that closed off borders, so even though I could see nearby systems I could not just warp to them. But then I started a game and made everyone have to use hyper lanes only. I wanted a game where I could create choke points and such. I got lucky and ended up with a nice area on the edge of the map with only one way in, which I am using as my staging area now. And looking at the map, there are two systems that when I gain control of them I will have about 20 or so systems blocked off for myself. I am a bit worried about what will happen if the AI gets the jump drive thing I've read about (can the AI unlock the jump drive?), but I'll figure that out when/if it happens.

 

[iniudan]

can the AI unlock the jump drive?

Yes, but it is mostly common in AI that are spiritualist (due to having easy access to psi tech) or have wormhole tech (they lose a negative weight modifier on the jump drive tech once they researched wormhole containment field)

So in your game the danger is mostly from spiritualist.

 

[scaper12123]

The success or failure of hyperdrives depends on the circumstances. That could sum up the whole game, honestly. I had a very terrible campaign where I was locked into a small region of space by two spiteful empires and was forced to make unfavorable colonization and conquest of every habitable planet in my tiny region of space just to keep up with the rest of the galaxy. Eventually I managed to get out of that space, but by that point I was far behind and eventually gave up the campaign.

The point of hyper drives is to limit your travel from star to star. In many ways this can be advantageous, but in the case of that campaign I had it was a very unfortunate series of events that led to me being trapped like a rat.

 

[Pavane]

Winnable =/= balanced

I disagree with the premise that the FTL drives should be perfectly balanced with each other. An empire playing with one FTL drive should play differently, and even with more difficulty, than the same empire switching to a different FTL drive. By showing that you can win when using Hyper Drives, I hoped to dispel some of the hyperbole where those obsessed with "balance" claim that Hyper Drives are "unplayable", "broken", etc. Winning the game is the ultimate goal, not playing a "balanced" game like chess.

 

[scaper12123]

I disagree with the premise that the FTL drives should be perfectly balanced with each other. An empire playing with one FTL drive should play differently, and with more difficulty, than the same empire switching to a different FTL drive. By showing that you can win when using Hyper Drives, I hoped to dispel some of the hyperbole where those obsessed with "balance" claim that Hyper Drives are "unplayable", "broken", etc. Winning the game is the ultimate goal, not playing a "balanced" game like chess.

I agree, the game doesn't necessarily need to be balanced so much as it needs many different routes to success, each requiring different ways of thought. Wormhole is my favorite FTL type but it gets extremely frustrating when I have to deal with warfare, considering how it's restricted to one's home system. It's even more frustrating when you want to survey outlying systems or have to deal with a crisis. Even in good scenarios though, Warp and Hyperdrive are terrible when you're far away from your home system due to the requirements of a month's charging time for either FTL.

 

[Pavane]

I agree, the game doesn't necessarily need to be balanced so much as it needs many different routes to success, each requiring different ways of thought. Wormhole is my favorite FTL type but it gets extremely frustrating when I have to deal with warfare, considering how it's restricted to one's home system. It's even more frustrating when you want to survey outlying systems or have to deal with a crisis. Even in good scenarios though, Warp and Hyperdrive are terrible when you're far away from your home system due to the requirements of a month's charging time for either FTL.

I am using wormholes for a change in my multi-player game and I have been boxed in by a FE on each flank and hostile empires with defence alliances and closed borders. I was constrained until I developed 2nd generation wormhole generators, but by then most of the open territory beyond my immediate neighbours was claimed. I can still win, but I am used to a longer game since I play a lot with Hyper Drives.

 

[nathelbiya]

I think by now that the main issue is in the later stages when hyperdrive cannot keep up. In the beginning all ways have limitations on what you can reach. But while the other grant access to additional systems, for hyperdrive the routes stay the same, you are just a bit faster.
Another level of hyperdrive tech that opens up additional routes (preferably with longer jumps) would go a lot to mitigate the issues.