Secondary issue: Can you use jump drive or psi jump drive, when you restricted the game to hyperlanes only?
Yet Another Win Using Hyper Drives
- Thread starter Pavane
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In my current Hyperlanes game I was building lots of static defense due to being unable to have high naval power. My defense stations have, repeatedly, saved my keester as they were actually incredibly useful in several pitch battles and were able to put decent to heavy dents into enemy fleets before I arrived.
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I think what most people used Hyperdrives for was the deep raiding potential. Wich was removed out of any drives. And then double removed with the loss of "Instant Jump" for Hyperdrives.
What hyper drive still has is the one-of-a-kind difficulty of being caught. Even way outside your area the same level of Hyperdrive and Warpdrive, the warpdrive will still not be able to catch up.
What does it mater if they can jump further, if by the time they reach there and come off cooldown, the target is already 3 systems further?
Even if you manually control the pathing (because you manage to guess where the enemy will be after 3 jumps), you need a system where both parties entry points are close enough. And the Hyperdrive still has all the time it takes your warpdrive to come off Winddown to split.
Remember that ships on cooldown can defend themself, but NOT start a combat. And Fleets with a FTL order will generally NEVER start a combat eitehr.
Only stations and Military Fleets off FTL cooldown will initate combat.
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I believe that the average player wants the different FTL types to be different, and each have their own challenges and merits. However, at the moment hyperdrive only poses challenges.
It's not such a big deal that it's difficult to win a game with hyperdrives, but I do wish that there was a mechanical reason to choose them.
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Imagine you are me in the galaxy map below and you're trying to get your armies from Rimbarth to Julau in a hurry.
Using wormholes, it will take 2 jumps to arrive. Using hyperdrives it will take 9.
Now lets look at the full galaxy map and imagine how many jumps it would take from Julau to reach my colony on Binami.
Armed with that information, tell me again that the only reason I don't like hyperdrives is because I have the wrong attitude.
Also what's hard or challenging about it? The only difference is you have to go on absurd detours and do hundreds of jumps to travel any kind of distance, which other drives could do substantially quicker. Without any kind of compensation for this travel delay it's a pretty simple conclusion to arrive at that relative to warp/wormholes/jumpdrive, hyper lanes suck.
It's like deciding you're going to only use t1 nuclear missiles your entire play through. Doable? Sure. But why the hell would you unless you were RPing? There are clearly superior setups.
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So... you agree that they are not really balanced with the other two? Why the thread then? That's all people have said. It's weaker then the other two.
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I just noticed that the ingame description still claims you could jump from inside gravity wells...
I've got the opposite experience in my current game trying to catch a Warp fleet with my Hyperdrive. While they are in cooldown, I jump three systems. Only to have them jump to the neighbouring spiral arm just before I catch them. Which requires me to do a 15 jump detour.
This is with the highest level of both, in the early game Hyperdrives are faster than Warp in my experience.
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The 9 Hyperdrive jumps will be done about the same time as the 2 Wormhole ones. Especially if you consider that Wormhole generation becomes slower with distance and fleetsize.
Robot Armies also still claim they are immune to Morale Loss. "Strings are patient", as I like to say. Basically if the Tooltip is not generated 100% from gamefiles (something Stellaris already does heavily) it does not mater.
Back in SotS 1+2 I liked to play human only games, with the "Cluster" setup. The positive effect was that I had one "cluster" of planets I could fully take over. With only a single Node path in and out of every cluster.
Using Spiral + Hyperdrive is the same thing.
It is comparable to doubling the Average Star Distance and then play a Warpdrive only game (so the T1 WD has issues even getting to the next System over). Of course the drive will peform shitty if you throw that many rocks on it's way! But that is not the Drives fault, but your fault for how you choose to combine drive and map.
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Absolutely. I've never played warp. I started with wormholes. After a while it became a bit boring so I went to hyper. Frustratingly harder, but also more "strategic", especially when one of the only two expansion routes is blocked from day 1 by one of those automated dreadnought things! Nevertheless much more fun in a masochistic way, and I never even realized it was considered nerfed. But to mitigate my time issues (never getting far into the mid-game), I guess I should minimax a bit by going back to wormholes!
This is my third straight win using hyper drives in a spiral arm galaxy, this time under 1.4.1. Since missiles are the "broken" weapon equivalent to hyper drives, I decided to fight with two arms tied behind my back. I used hyper drives throughout the game even though I salvaged jump drives and had the opportunity to research psi-jump drives. Other than point defences, I used the missile line of weapons exclusively (missiles and explosive torpedoes). No energy or kinetic weapons at all. Hyper dives and missiles are definitely the most challenging to play, but you can still win. You might even have fun if you allow yourself not to be bothered by playing with "unbalanced" technologies.
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I feel like I'm the only guy in the world that actually prefers warp drives over the other methods.
Then again, last time I played the game was like, two months ago.
Then again, last time I played the game was like, two months ago.
You are not alone. WARP DRIVES FOR LIFE........or until they make hyperdrives more interesting.
I like warp drives as much as hyper drives. In fact I am using them in my new game, having demonstrated here that in three consecutive games hyper drives do not prevent a victory. I like a game where you have to develop different playing styles based on the empire/nation that you are playing because of asymmetrical strengths. It adds a new strategic layer to enjoy.
The devs really need to change the descriptions when you create an empire. New players are told that wormholes are for 'advanced players' when they're actually the easiest option (according to the forums at least).
I think warp drives are the strongest of the 3 currently. I think i only played hyperdrives once since the nerf and boy it was horrible. My issue with wormholes is that they are slower imo than warp drives. Also when you are reinforcing your fleet wormholes can get get clumped up since 10 ships will try to rally to your fleet from the same system. So i think warp drives are too good thanks to combat buff while wind down is in effect a few patches ago.
Actually according to Wiz twitter account, wormhole is the least popular. Well that it is labelled for advanced player, might shy new player from it, especially with the reputation that Paradox game have of basically having learning cliff instead of curve.
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PErsonaly, I usually play warp. Hyperdrives has the 15 jumps to get next door issue, and I am just to damn lazy to plop wormhole stations 
I don't see the point of hyperdrives. When I'm allied to an hyperdrive empire, you can be sure they are always too late to participate in the wars I do. It's just slow, you need to go through every single system on the way, and you can't even use them to run away faster by activating them inside a grav well.
I think the main issue is how hyperdrive evolve through the game. Hyperdrive is neat in the beginning, because it's likely to be the fastest, due to the small area you use. But by midgame, they are starting to be obsolete. By lategame, they are terrible, as it will take forever to move from one side your empire to the other. Not to mention it's easy to "block" them.
Wormhole, the infamous OP wormhole is bad in the beginning due to the cost of the station (when you struggle to have 10minerals a month, they are expensive). By mid game they are the strongest (when minerals are not an issue anymore), since they are fast and allow you to "jump" over some areas. Lategame they aren't so good anymore, due to the time it take to jump for a large fleet (40+days is not uncommon, which mean several jumps can take half a year).
Which is probably why wormhole are considered superior. They shine for the most important part of the game, and they are not that bad initially. While hyperdrive truly shine for a small period of time. On the other hand, they are both bad at endgame.
Warp is a good all around newbie drive. It's never truly bad, but it's never truly good either.
I think the main issue is how hyperdrive evolve through the game. Hyperdrive is neat in the beginning, because it's likely to be the fastest, due to the small area you use. But by midgame, they are starting to be obsolete. By lategame, they are terrible, as it will take forever to move from one side your empire to the other. Not to mention it's easy to "block" them.
Wormhole, the infamous OP wormhole is bad in the beginning due to the cost of the station (when you struggle to have 10minerals a month, they are expensive). By mid game they are the strongest (when minerals are not an issue anymore), since they are fast and allow you to "jump" over some areas. Lategame they aren't so good anymore, due to the time it take to jump for a large fleet (40+days is not uncommon, which mean several jumps can take half a year).
Which is probably why wormhole are considered superior. They shine for the most important part of the game, and they are not that bad initially. While hyperdrive truly shine for a small period of time. On the other hand, they are both bad at endgame.
Warp is a good all around newbie drive. It's never truly bad, but it's never truly good either.
I hate when people do that. That just doesn't mean ANYTHING. You can win by gimping yourself. I'm sure I can win the game in normal difficulty by using tier 1 railgun all the way, and using numbers to win. Doesn't mean t1 railgun are OP.
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Did you bother to read the naysayer quotes at the beginning of the thread? I hate when people complain about a tech not being playable because that opinion is very subjective, and may give new players a false impression.
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Considering the point of the OP was that they could win a game irregardless of changes made to hyperdrives I see nothing wrong with my retort.