Yet another partition gripe

  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Paradox Midsummer Sale has arrived! Up to 75% off!

    Enjoy some sun and song this Midsummer, but when the sun goes down, the fun doesn't have to stop! Paradox has a festive sale on plenty of games to keep your summer nights going!


    June 18th - June 30th
  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

FonzoRomano

Grand-Maester Templar and King of Portucale
25 Badges
Jul 19, 2012
342
1.597
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
It sounds to me like the problem is that the game doesn't "put sons under other sons".

So if there are 4 brothers and 2 duchies,

Main Heir - Duchy A, 3 counties
Second Heir - Duchy B, 3 counties
Rest of 2 Heirs get 1 county each inside Duchy A.... Leaving Main Heir with 1 county + Duchy title, and Second Heir with 3 counties + Duchy Title.

When the solution would have to be:

Main Heir - Duchy A, 2 Counties
Second heir - Duchy B, 2 counties
third Heir - 1 county in Duchy A
Fourth heir - 1 county in Duchy B
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Snadasky

Private
55 Badges
Nov 29, 2020
19
25
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
That's because of the sacral nature of the emperor title. In the early middle age emperor had to be granted by the pope, it was no title that was given to the next king. The kings of the HRE had to move to Rome to get it.

In fact emperor was never a title to rule over kings. King was the material title, emperor more a kind of spiritual.
Which was only relevant to Catholics.
The challenge comes from trying to consolidate your realm correctly before you die for those players who want to keep everything for themselves. Alternatively if you’re not playing the game as a map painter but instead as an RPG with the goal of spreading your dynasty as far and wide as possible as I do then you’ll find partition is actually a blessing and not a curse.

The issue with partition comes with how players choose to play the game (nothing wrong with this - just pointing out partition is only a problem with specific gameplay styles), and not with the mechanics itself. It is WAI and WAD.

Bannerman21’s explanation is exactly how the mechanic works for any realms that start with confederate partition.
I wouldn't mind it so much if at least the capital duchy was safe from it. I do generally try and prevent my children from gaining independence though unless I really plan ahead and develop a good holding for them to take over as sadly my lovely children are controlled by the AI and if they are not protected by me or my primary heir after my death they will probably end up conquered or deposed.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:

The Norman Yoke

Second Lieutenant
Jun 8, 2021
138
120
Which is:
a) historically consistent - I can remember feudal successions when people gets stuff from royal domain (French are especially great offenders here, but, actually, it was very normal practice), but, on my head, I can't point one succession where one son became a duke, and another became a count UNDER this duke. The very idea is quite weird.
They'd be a Prince of the blood which would give them a different dignity.

Irl didn't fit ck's rigid hierarchy. The count of flanders held such power but was never raised to Duke, whilst each squabbling German named themselves Duke when dividing their fathers shed.
 

MatthewP

Captain
41 Badges
Feb 8, 2017
466
1.124
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
So if you hold no counties outside your capital duchy, do you think you should be able to ignore partition and leave no land for your children beyond your primary heir, even though you have counties you can hand out?
Yes. I think this would improve the game. And again, it’s 100% consistent with how the game handles every other duchy that is inherited.

edit: FWIW I think there should be a whole succession dlc and the system should become much more dynamic and engaging, and actually be tied to character personalities (you know, the core game mechanic). I would much prefer that to this bandaid.

edit 2: Maybe only for king/emperor tier. Honestly not sure on that part.
 
Last edited:
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:

MatthewP

Captain
41 Badges
Feb 8, 2017
466
1.124
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Wouldn't that just be getting the AI to disinherit but then land their sons more often?
No...well maybe, sure. But what I really mean is a system where inheritance is more fluid - an ambitious heir might demand more, a humble or content one might not care, a really talented diplomat might be able to sway support from more vassals for their claims, etc. The actual division of titles on player death would not be set in stone, all the heirs' feelings about how they came out of the process would have a bearing on their future interactions with the primary heir, and perceived unfairness of the succession (relative to the law on the books) could potentially start the heir off with some tyranny, or lead to feuds or alliances between the heirs.

You would would of course need an in-game way of measuring who "wins" the succession. Some points system probably, where birth order matters a lot, but so does support from vassals and co-heirs, support of the outgoing ruler, and personality. This would all be a big rework which is why it would have to be it's own DLC. But this is perhaps a bit of a sidetracking of the thread...
 

sparta105

Hegemonial Overlord
99 Badges
Jul 9, 2014
474
434
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Magicka
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
Actually his empire split into three independent kingdoms and the empire title was destroyed.

CK never does that but imho it should.
Not exactly. Technically, Lothar inherited the title of emperor but lacked the authority to enforce it.
 

Bannerman21

Sergeant
24 Badges
Mar 19, 2021
82
131
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
Yes. I think this would improve the game. And again, it’s 100% consistent with how the game handles every other duchy that is inherited.

edit: FWIW I think there should be a whole succession dlc and the system should become much more dynamic and engaging, and actually be tied to character personalities (you know, the core game mechanic). I would much prefer that to this bandaid.

edit 2: Maybe only for king/emperor tier. Honestly not sure on that part.
Yeah, pretty much. I would moderate it to "not splitting the capital duchy unless there are no other counties in the realm to give," but that's just me.
 

Blackwhitecavias

Colonel
47 Badges
Apr 11, 2017
917
643
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
Which was only relevant to Catholics.

I wouldn't mind it so much if at least the capital duchy was safe from it. I do generally try and prevent my children from gaining independence though unless I really plan ahead and develop a good holding for them to take over as sadly my lovely children are controlled by the AI and if they are not protected by me or my primary heir after my death they will probably end up conquered or deposed.
The issue is that keeping the capital duchy safe is not doable in the system without also doing the same for other tiers or making it more confusing as the same mechanics are used for each tier. This means that making the capital duchy safe would also mean that the capital kingdom and empire are safe which is not behaviour we want. Then there is of course also the case of a single-duchy ruler who would then just get to keep his entire domain regardless of how many sons he has which is definitely not wanted behaviour.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

The Norman Yoke

Second Lieutenant
Jun 8, 2021
138
120
No...well maybe, sure. But what I really mean is a system where inheritance is more fluid - an ambitious heir might demand more, a humble or content one might not care, a really talented diplomat might be able to sway support from more vassals for their claims, etc. The actual division of titles on player death would not be set in stone, all the heirs' feelings about how they came out of the process would have a bearing on their future interactions with the primary heir, and perceived unfairness of the succession (relative to the law on the books) could potentially start the heir off with some tyranny, or lead to feuds or alliances between the heirs.

You would would of course need an in-game way of measuring who "wins" the succession. Some points system probably, where birth order matters a lot, but so does support from vassals and co-heirs, support of the outgoing ruler, and personality. This would all be a big rework which is why it would have to be it's own DLC. But this is perhaps a bit of a sidetracking of the thread...
Aren't these just factions being more common? And princes being given plots in their own life time to govern
 

Opanashc

Field Marshal
59 Badges
Jul 4, 2010
3.911
1.011
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
Non-player heirs should start getting lower titles with only de-jure capital (or one county in it, if you don't hold the capital), and thus not have the second son keep 3 counties, when his elder and younger siblings only get 1 each.
 

MatthewP

Captain
41 Badges
Feb 8, 2017
466
1.124
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
The issue is that keeping the capital duchy safe is not doable in the system without also doing the same for other tiers or making it more confusing as the same mechanics are used for each tier. This means that making the capital duchy safe would also mean that the capital kingdom and empire are safe which is not behaviour we want. Then there is of course also the case of a single-duchy ruler who would then just get to keep his entire domain regardless of how many sons he has which is definitely not wanted behaviour.
You keep counties in your capital duchy. Full stop. You really think folks won’t be able to grasp this?

I think the part about dukes is a more legitimate objection. I could go either way. I do think it’s good for the game to have strong dukes though, so I might lean towards saying yep, single duchy dukes keep their land. What desirable thing does it take away from the game?
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Celydonn

Sergeant
Jun 2, 2021
81
29
Why should your third son be so unworthy he becomes a vassal of your second son? He should be a vassal of your first

Because it was like that. 1st son heir, 2nd son backup, 3rd+ son military (some officer at best)... wouldnt even be a "lower tier" vasal, just some unimportant subject.
So when the 3rd son becoems a county and thus the vassal of the 2nd son who got a duchy, who in turn is the vassal of the 1st son who got the kingdom... the 3rd son should consider himself very lucky.

Whatever. I agree with the initial post, I see why it was done, but it is poorly executed.
Partition laws did exist but werent the default norm. From the very beginning the "bosses" determined who inherits what and the titles moved to the heir (and yes in the very early stages it could be consented and the "nobles" assembly could revoke the title(s) if the "heir" came out as incompetent). CK3 should give the ruler the ability to determine in advance who inherits what. And if thats too difficult to implement, then split it, but give each son just one county and the rest goes to the primary heir.
Btw lets says you are the King and your two brothers are the Dukes. Your first son becomes the heir to the kingdom, but your other sonds are nothing. When you die, your 1st son is king and your other 2 sonds are just princes of the kingdom and nobles at the kings court.
 

Opanashc

Field Marshal
59 Badges
Jul 4, 2010
3.911
1.011
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
Partition laws did exist but werent the default norm.
Actually, they were the norm, for the time period specified. Read up on history, and see how many sons rebelled against their fathers, because they were not set to inherit a "fair" portion of their father's domain.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Celydonn

Sergeant
Jun 2, 2021
81
29
Actually, they were the norm, for the time period specified. Read up on history, and see how many sons rebelled against their fathers, because they were not set to inherit a "fair" portion of their father's domain.

that they rebelled, because they did not got their "share", shows, it was not the norm ;)
after all, they would not rebell, if they got their share? which, naturaly, did not happen either. when they got their share, they rebelled anyway for various reason (like they thought it was not fair or they deserved more)
so the whole thing is pointless

one thing is clear, randomized share, with primary heir being biased, as it is now, is not realy working

there are actualy only two things how to solve it...
"partial" partition... ie every son of the ruler gets one county and the rest goes to the primary heir (and if it is the lion share, so be it. also do not forget, the heir is not going to have as much "prestige", ie max possible holdings, as the previous ruler, and will be hit by pretty hard penalty, if he does not distribute the surplus titles)
the ruler decides who inherits what title after hsi dead
and when any 2nd+ son have a problem with it, he can form a faction and fight it out with the primary heir, as history has shown us many times (till the early/mid middle age)
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Opanashc

Field Marshal
59 Badges
Jul 4, 2010
3.911
1.011
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
that they rebelled, because they did not got their "share", shows, it was not the norm ;)
The kid was promised A, B and C, then daddy decided to give A and C to the firstborn, so the kid rebels to get it back. Sound like the norm?
there are actualy only two things how to solve it...
"partial" partition... ie every son of the ruler gets one county and the rest goes to the primary heir (and if it is the lion share, so be it. also do not forget, the heir is not going to have as much "prestige", ie max possible holdings, as the previous ruler, and will be hit by pretty hard penalty, if he does not distribute the surplus titles)
the ruler decides who inherits what title after hsi dead
and when any 2nd+ son have a problem with it, he can form a faction and fight it out with the primary heir, as history has shown us many times (till the early/mid middle age)
In my opinion - partition should divvy out higher titles ONLY with de-jure capitals (or just one county inside), and then start splitting counties more or less equally, instead of giving non-primary heirs titles with all their de-jure intact.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Blackwhitecavias

Colonel
47 Badges
Apr 11, 2017
917
643
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
The kid was promised A, B and C, then daddy decided to give A and C to the firstborn, so the kid rebels to get it back. Sound like the norm?

In my opinion - partition should divvy out higher titles ONLY with de-jure capitals (or just one county inside), and then start splitting counties more or less equally, instead of giving non-primary heirs titles with all their de-jure intact.
This would be horrible for bordergore though, let's imagine a situation with Duchies A and B, counties A1, A2, A3, A4, B1, B2, B3, B4 and sons S1, S2 and S3
This would lead to a division where S1 gets A and A1 in the first round, S2 gets B and B1 and S3 gets A2. After repeating this we end up with the following split:
-S1 gets A, A1, A3 and B3.
-S2 gets B, B1, A4 and B4.
-S3 gets A2 and B2.
This would be horrible for bordergore as they would hold lands all over the place. It would also give a big advantage to people inheriting duchies in which you hold only one county (if B2, B3 and B4 were held by others this would lead to a split where S2 gets both his own duchy and a county in A).