Yet another Ottoman rant

[adin85]

I remember many patches ago Devs nerfed Ottomans and they started to be joke. Now is normal gameplay.

 

[currylambchop]

In recent patches the Ottomans would regularly beat the combined forces of the Holy Roman Empire and the Commonwealth. Now they stack wipe armies 4 times their size. It's ridiculous.

Every game in this patch the commonwealth stomps on the Ottomans and Russia having a force limit of almost a million. Tbh they are much more of a problem than the Ottomans with far superior ideas and pips.

 

[Workiwork]

the one point i saw in this thread i really want (in eu 5 i guess, to late in eu 4s lifespan) are supply ranges and limits. i never ever again want to see my ally france siege down kazan while loosing paris. and when i think about it.. i saw the AI run from western europe through India to Malacca to arrive just in time for the end of the war.

i can only assume that those things are things so annoying that EU 5 will have to tackle those.... please? ^^

 

[st360]

Twice and fought over Hungary for more than 200 years

Napoleonic warfare age ability +5 in thr age of revolution that everyone can get
Elan used to be game breaking

They can conquer inca in 1 and spawn rebels everywhere. They get permaclaims to aztecs and will be at tech advantage along with cortez being like 5556

If you focus on balkan nationalism posts yeah it'll show them only doing that

They held most of Hungary, had zapolya as a vassal, but were able to rebound sometimes even if Hungary was what the ottomans bit their teeth on

In 1 war, along with rapid conquest of north africa and meddling in moroccan affairs

They obviously could considering the number of Albanian janissaries, viziers, eunuchs, and all the rest, there's even an Albanian bathroom servant who helps lead a riot after one too many turks

From the tone it seems you're defending the Ottomans, but all of those points make them seem pathetic. These guys should be no.1 tech in the world, have 3 star generals and field 200 000 armies with +discipline because they conquered Tunis and lost 5 provinces in Hungary?

Again, if this was the standard, France should get a exclusive, french only bonus for +3000% manpower and +500% artillery combat.

 

[noldorin]

No they don't. Thats total BS. They need a massive nerf.

I'm so sick of this "The Ottomans historically sieged Vienna once and lost, so they need to be broken" crap.

Guess what? France conquered all of Europe in 20 years. Where is the +70 000% siege speed and +8 000% artillery combat for France?

Spain destroyed the Aztec Empire with 20 guys. They owned 80% of both Americas within 70 years. Where is their + 500 000% combat ability versus natives and -2 000 000% coring cost in the new world?

The Ottomans spent 95% of their history fighting against one province minors and loosing 30% of the time. The only 2 times they did anything was when they conquered Hungary over 200 years (and then lost it), and when they tried to siege Vienna and lost. Their only single actual achievement was defeating the Mamluks. The Ottomans couldn't defeat Albania ffs.

It's time to hire yourself a good history teacher. It's a great comedy when you compare the Spanish who defeated the natives holding wooden swords in America with the Ottomans. During the reign of Süleyman I, the Ottomans besieged Vienna. During this period, the Holy Roman Emperor was equivalent to the Ottoman Grand Vizier in protocol. Albanian Skanderbeg and III. Vlad was a persons who grew up in the Ottoman country and knew this country well. That's why they were successful. There is a saying that the child of the house knows the situation in the house. Napoleon could not achieve his success in Europe in Egypt and Syria. He was defeated by the weak Ottoman Empire in front of Akka and had to retreat to his country. Objectivity is very important when developing a perspective on historical events. personal passions and hatred are excluded. When Turks have indigestion, we drink soda

 

[st360]

It's time to hire yourself a good history teacher.

It's a great comedy

the Spanish who defeated the natives holding wooden swords

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

It's time to hire yourself a good history teacher. It's a great comedy when you compare the Spanish who defeated the natives holding wooden swords in America with the Ottomans. During the reign of Süleyman I, the Ottomans besieged Vienna. During this period, the Holy Roman Emperor was equivalent to the Ottoman Grand Vizier in protocol. Albanian Skanderbeg and III. Vlad was a persons who grew up in the Ottoman country and knew this country well. That's why they were successful. There is a saying that the child of the house knows the situation in the house. Napoleon could not achieve his success in Europe in Egypt and Syria. He was defeated by the weak Ottoman Empire in front of Akka and had to retreat to his country. Objectivity is very important when developing a perspective on historical events. personal passions and hatred are excluded. When Turks have indigestion, we drink soda

I suggest you check your own advice and actually read about the Egyptian campaign. Because in that same campaign the French beat about 20k Ottomans with only 4 k.
The French defeat was not caused by anything the Ottomans did, but by the British blockade and support (e.g. capturing the French siege guns in the siege you mentioned).

 

[noldorin]

I suggest you check your own advice and actually read about the Egyptian campaign. Because in that same campaign the French beat about 20k Ottomans with only 4 k.
The French defeat was not caused by anything the Ottomans did, but by the British blockade and support (e.g. capturing the French siege guns in the siege you mentioned).

In most sources, it is said that the French forces were not less than 15 thousand. Moreover, it is known that the British did not take part in the war except for artillery from the sea. 4 thousand soldiers came to me a funny number. I use academic articles as a source, not storybooks. I am continuing my career in this field.

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

The Ottomans spent 95% of their history fighting against one province minors and loosing 30% of the time. The only 2 times they did anything was when they conquered Hungary over 200 years (and then lost it), and when they tried to siege Vienna and lost. Their only single actual achievement was defeating the Mamluks. The Ottomans couldn't defeat Albania ffs.

They created one of the biggest Empires in the world. They fought the Empire or Charles V over the entire Eastern Mediterranean sea. I don't think the main Ottoman army lost a major engagement against a European army for 150 years or so.

I suggest you actually sit down and read about them before continue to rant here.

You also mention twice their only achievement was conquering Hungary and Egypt. Which one was it now?

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

In most sources, it is said that the French forces were not less than 15 thousand. Moreover, it is known that the British did not take part in the war except for artillery from the sea. 4 thousand soldiers came to me a funny number. I use academic articles as a source, not storybooks. I am continuing my career in this field.

OK so we are ignoring the British expedition who actually defeated the weakened French forces and the battle of the Nile (you know the one where the French fleet was annihilated).

 

[noldorin]

It is wrong to cite Wikipedia as a source. Because everyone can add something there and I don't think there are people who control this information.

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

It is wrong to cite Wikipedia as a source.

Almost as if I showed you the source that Wikipedia is taking its information from at the bottom...

Also Wikipedia sources are checked..

 

[Jiben]

I mean sure i've had some games where the Ottomans were absolute beasts, conquering the pontic steppe, wrecking arabia pushing deep into the PLC etc.

That said i've seen some crazy strong Austrias or PLCs from time to time too so i mean it's not like the ottomans are without rivals.

Quite often the ottomans cuck themselves by allying AQ which slows their expansion quite a bit.

IDK i'm not convinced the ottomans are a consistent threat the same way people claim. Sure some games they become insane but it's not like it happens every game and the ottomans while strong early are entirely possible to outscale by playing smart or by no cb-ing byz if you wanna cripple them early but i like to keep them as a midgame boss.

 

[egolend]

What I would like to see is a more nuenced diplomacy system. If you could only ally people within trade range, gaurentee countries if you have mil access from you capital to theirs etc. it creates zones of influence. The grabbing a trade port in India becomes important for extending that range. It also creates more tension between when you gaurentee, warn and intervine in wars.

 

[grandadmiralbob]

They consistently get Ukraine, in many of mine, as well as others play throughs. I think they should do something about that.

 

[Opanashc]

Ottoman heathen tolerance is way too high ( +3 from tradition, +2 from dhimmi privilege), Levantine culture group includes the Arabs, plus they get the luck boost.
Logistics should play a role in the game. You should not reinforce deep in enemy lands, cut off from your own lands.

 

[Volbound]

they weren't nearly as powerful irl as they are in the game. whether that's a good thing or not is of course up for debate

Depends on how you look at it, but they were pretty powerful. I just read a long book about Isabella of Castile and even she was afraid of Mehmed II and the Ottomans. This is why Spain went after Granada for fear that the Ottos would use it as a beachhead.

One thing that is impossible to occur in EU4 but happened was that the Ottos had totally overrun the Mamelukes by 1525 and had pretty much all of Arabia, North Africa, and most of the Balkans as conquered provinces or vassal states by that time period. They went into decline after that though.

 

[Volbound]

I will say this, I find Byzantium nearly impossible to play in new updates. In the past, I could get Alliance with Hungary and use their help to win the war. Ottos military advantage is no longer negated by putting your state in Morea Mountains.

I literally don't see how I can survive as Byzantium in new updates without MP help or just cheating to get Alliances with Austria or some other great power. Any advice from someone who is better than me at the game?

 

[Opanashc]

One thing that is impossible to occur in EU4 but happened was that the Ottos had totally overrun the Mamelukes by 1525 and had pretty much all of Arabia, North Africa, and most of the Balkans as conquered provinces or vassal states by that time period. They went into decline after that though.

The decline was relative, they just were not advancing as fast as European countries.

 

[Volbound]

The decline was relative, they just were not advancing as fast as European countries.

1600 and on, they enter a decline although the 1800s was their worse Century as they lost the most land and prestige and were labeled the "Sick Man of Europe". (Basically Victoria 2 Ottomans). The first real setback for Ottomans was in the Great Turkish War. That saw an Alliance of Austria, Poland-Lithuania, Venice, and Russia against the Ottos (this sounds kind of like EU4 with Ottos taking on multi-great powers).

However, the OP setup for the Ottos is a historical fit for Ottomans and that is my point.