with this mindset paradox will always be lazy with their DLCs..
"Ah this feature doesnt work? Just ship it anyway, modders will fix it"
"Ah this feature doesnt work? Just ship it anyway, modders will fix it"
Yes there are problems in 2.2 Why not use mods?
- Thread starter sresk
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This isn't about defending shoddy work... it's about dealing with the reality of the situation.
The game has some serious issues with it that makes it unplayable in alot of ways. So you have basically three options:
1) You can set it aside and give your attention to something else while it gets fixed.
2) You can look to the community for mods that fix the issues that are effecting your enjoyment of the game, and continue playing if there are mods that do that.
3) You can continue to play the game and/or give your attention to it, even though it's too broken for you to enjoy.
The third option is really a very poor use of your time.
The bugs have been reported, and are being worked on. Yelling at the dev team isn't going to get them fixed any quicker, but it's up to you how you spend your time.
The game has some serious issues with it that makes it unplayable in alot of ways. So you have basically three options:
1) You can set it aside and give your attention to something else while it gets fixed.
2) You can look to the community for mods that fix the issues that are effecting your enjoyment of the game, and continue playing if there are mods that do that.
3) You can continue to play the game and/or give your attention to it, even though it's too broken for you to enjoy.
The third option is really a very poor use of your time.
The bugs have been reported, and are being worked on. Yelling at the dev team isn't going to get them fixed any quicker, but it's up to you how you spend your time.
Because mods don't actually fix the problems. They are just bandaid workarounds. And the AI mod adds more issues thans it's worth.
Almost nobody is yelling. But there is never anything wrong with consistantly pointing out flaws and discussing solutions.
A ton of bugs the devs forget about or didn't even notice. People have to talk about them or many will not get fixed.
If nobody says anything, the devs won't know there is a problem or it more severe than they think. Player opinion helps drive priority.
*shrug* If i have a cut, I'm going to put a bandaid on it and carry on with my day. If you want to sit and poke at the wound, that's on you.
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Or just not pretend mods are an actual solution to anything.
People need to play vanilla to find bugs and balance issues. Modding your game makes your bug reports and complaints unreliable and muddy.
Hearing people complain about AI bugs caused by Glavius as if they exost in vanilla kills me.
Thankyou exactly how I feel about it.
And for all of the people shouting entitled, deserve, and selling, I'd like to ask how much you paid for the 2.2 patch.
I'm getting dozens of hours of enjoyment out of a game I bought several years ago thanks to a (bug ridden) patch I didn't have to pay for.
Call me old fashioned, but if you enjoy not only paying full price for an incomplete product, but afterwards spend your valuable time testing, filing bug reports, and coding fixes for said software, all for free, and all while being apologists and bashing any reasonable criticsm... well I'm glad you found your enjoyment. But I will still think you're just a sucker.
Let it be known that the only reason I haven't jumped ship is because I know the developers are still working to make this product better.
Let it be known that the only reason I haven't jumped ship is because I know the developers are still working to make this product better.
I don't think anyone is being an "apologist" here.... this isn't a trial to begin with. Everyone knows what state the game is in - It's no revelation to come here and expose what's happened. Accepting the reality of the situation shouldn't be equated with saying everything is fine and honky dory... because that's not the case.
I don't think the game is playable in it's current state, and I don't like that fact. Of course it's not a terrible surprise to anyone who's bought a Paradox DLC at release. It's how they roll.
None the less, I hoped this update might be an exception - so I've tried it out, said "aw, darn" reported some bugs I came across and continued on.... I stumbled on this thread while investigating Glavius' mod to see if it addresses the issues with AI in the mean time.
I don't think the game is playable in it's current state, and I don't like that fact. Of course it's not a terrible surprise to anyone who's bought a Paradox DLC at release. It's how they roll.
None the less, I hoped this update might be an exception - so I've tried it out, said "aw, darn" reported some bugs I came across and continued on.... I stumbled on this thread while investigating Glavius' mod to see if it addresses the issues with AI in the mean time.
Please take a careful look everyone. This is exactly that mentality, which turned 2018 into a competition in "hold my beer" between various large game companies.
Sorry, but no. Your logic is completely invalid on so many levels, even the "Over 9000" meme would not be enough to describe it.
If a company is advertising a product, I expect the product to perform it's advertised functions and work properly.
If I buy an LCD monitor and find out that it's screen does not work, ask for a working product instead and the company goes and says "Oh, but you can just go to this random guy and ask him to install a new screen" you bet whatever you want that I am going to sue the crap out of that company.
Modding is no excuse for any game being flawed. Zero. Any game should work totally as advertised with the minimal amount of bugs (preferably none but that's a unicorn). Mods should enhance the base experience, not make up for deficiencies. If a modder does really great work for the game, I say put them on the payroll.
Where's the mod that makes the game not choke to death on pathfinding calculations once hypergates start coming into play?
Even without having read the whole thread, the answer is easy: Because the dev's have to fix their damn game, and not the modders. To say that 2.2 is a mess, because Pdox did neither invest in the necessary QA, nor took enough time to fix all the bugs and balance issues beforehand, and saying that we can just use mods to fix all the problems is not only apologetic, its just... well, let's just say I'm at a loss here. The words I know, I can't use here without risking the atteontion of a mod, and I don't know the ones I could use without risking a ban.
It's the dev's job, to release a game, or a patch, that has as few bugs and balance problems as possible. With 2.2 they just didn't do their job, again. And I can't really understand how people like you could apologise this with the existence of mods. If nothing else, the devs should be ashamed, that one modder could fix the ai in his freetime, only a few days after 2.2 was released, while Pdox is, and I apologise in advance for the wording, either too dumb to do this, or they do not care. It's not as if the ai hadn't been already stupid as f*** when stellaris first hit the shelves in 2016. Neither is it the first time, Stellaris is in such a poor shape, because new features weren't tested enough, and a Patch broke more things than it fixed. And it is definitelly not the first time, that Paradox released something of such poor quality.
And you know what? I can't grasp why there are so many people here, that try to apologise this everytime with the existence of mods. Every other company would have got a shitstorm, that you could've seen from the other end of the galaxy. But not Paradox. Those guys are infallible and beyond any form of critique.
tl;dr: The people at Paradox have to do their job and fix things, asap, and certainly not modders that are not even paid for their work. And i don't understand how, or why, people try to apologise this behavior repeatedly.
wouldn't be the first time a dev team hires a modder to fix their game for them. at this point i don't think anyone would mind if thats what happened.
paradox messed up the QA (again) so it's their job to fix the issues. they've had worse releases, but they also had better releases.
they should be (and likely are) grateful for every bug report and also for other feedback.
of course it's always hard to swallow the feedback if it's overly hostile. most of the "everything sucks" kind of threads are pretty useless anyway when they are full of insults and maybe 1-2 useful bits of information.
but you have to admit that it's partially paradox own fault for releasing the update in that state. they had the choice at some point to delay it and fix more issues or release it and they made a choice and now have to live with the consequences.
you can be a fan of the company and love their products and still recognize that they make mistakes. everyone does.
they should be (and likely are) grateful for every bug report and also for other feedback.
of course it's always hard to swallow the feedback if it's overly hostile. most of the "everything sucks" kind of threads are pretty useless anyway when they are full of insults and maybe 1-2 useful bits of information.
but you have to admit that it's partially paradox own fault for releasing the update in that state. they had the choice at some point to delay it and fix more issues or release it and they made a choice and now have to live with the consequences.
you can be a fan of the company and love their products and still recognize that they make mistakes. everyone does.
Yeah, Mods should be used to build on a game to shape it the way you like it. Not to fix it.
People shouldnt be happy to fix broken mechanics with community made band aids.
People shouldnt be happy to fix broken mechanics with community made band aids.
You want Bethesda? Because that's how you end with Bethesda.
Looking at the past i'm not spewing any vitriol on devs, because they will fix it sooner or later and the game isn't unplayable. The only serious issue is crap performance.
I am not a game mechanic in Stellaris. Neither am I unpaid QA. (I could be, if PDX actually made it possible for me to be, BEFORE releasing a broken update.)
If Paradox were, in fact, paying community members to patch bugs while the core team worked on a more permanent and comprehensive fix, I'd have much less of a problem with the attitude parts of this community are displaying, because then it would actually be somewhat understandable. As it is, all the apologists are doing is trying to shift the blame for the broken product onto the user.
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Unlike other people, I really don't have a lot of problems with this patch. But, just like you, I have a lot of problems with the above mindset. If Paradox would take this mindset, they would become basically Bethesda; always reliant on modders to fix their game, and not even bothering to fix things even when easy solutions are already out there.