Yemen problems in HOD

[darth254]

been trying to play as Yemen and it is giving me fits. start the game out uncivilized with about 100k pop and an oversized army (6 brigades, but pop support realistically can handle maybe 2?), and don't start out with wool (don't know if that has major bearings on the issues below). I try maxing out taxes and tariffs but money stays in the red, regardless of what admin efficiency is at. It's not til I pass economic reforms (land, financial, railroad variety) that increase farming/mining or tax efficiency I'll actually accumulate money.

If I try to fight Hedjaz and blitz them, they're friendly with the Ottoman Turks who I simply can't beat. so I don't know if I have to wait for the Turks to be preoccupied with Egypt or another big boy to go in on Hedjaz, but it seems the more I wait the more my oversized army brigade number depletes and my window for conquering shrinks cause 1) Hedjaz's oversized starting army can then beat me when I'm at 2 brigades, and 2) Hedjaz and other Arabian countries start developing alliances with other nations like Ethiopia and Persia, which makes it impossible for me do anything.

if I opt for Nedj instead, Nejd's army is just as big if not bigger than mine, and their territory is so sprawled out the attrition wears me out due to undermanned brigades.

Oman I can beat but I can't conquer Oman itself quickly cause I have to address their African nations first, which have nice pop perks but Portugal promptly will go after anything I gobble up from Oman in Africa anyways.



Also regarding fighting Hedjaz or Nejd, I've tried fighting defensively but it seems like their oversized brigades are actually replenishing while pushing into my territory with me trying to backcap around, but mine are still depleting rapidly even in my own territory. I don't know what gives. I've tried national focusing soldiers and it gets me to like 5%-6% but I can't seem to raise new brigades numbers beyond 2 which is not sufficient to do anything. I can set the military budget to 100% it doesn't matter. My brigades just keep gassing out but theirs holds strong.

do I have to westernize to actually do anything? I was kind of trying to do military reforms and conquer to speed up westernization, but as noted above that is not working for me. Westernizing without making using of conquering bonus from military reforms just takes so long.

 

[Comradebot]

Let me preface by saying that I've never played as Yemen, though I do have a fair share of Unciv experience (my biggest success coming with turning Morocco into the number five ranked power in the world).

With an Unciv, money is mostly a non-worry. Yes, you're in the red and you'll remain there for the foreseeable future. However, you also can't take loans and can't go bankrupt, so don't worry about it as the consequences for it aren't particularly dire. Just means you need to focus your meager funds wherever is most important during that time. At war? Slash everything except troop maintenance. At peace? Well, with basically every Unciv you'll need to put that good stuff into education to get your literacy up. To keep your soldier pops growing and healthy(ish), you'll also need to make sure military funding is pushed up as high as possible.

And hey, I actually have Vicky II booted up in the background, so let me look at Yemen...

Alright, a few things I notice:

1. Oman can be taken out in two wars. With the first, I'd say go against common convention and focus on releasing Zanzibar from them, reducing them to two states maximum (which is small enough as an Unciv for you to annex in the second war). There's nothing stopping you from then going after Zanzibar individually afterwards, as they'll also be small enough on their own to fully annex with a single war. This will allow you to go ahead and get all those primary Bedouin pops under your control without worrying about Zanzibar, and...

2. Giving you time to butter up Portugal. A nation can't fabricate a claim against you if you have 100+ relations with them. If Portugal is the one giving you the most trouble, start with them. Yes, it'll take forever, but that's the unfortunate state of affairs for 95% of Uncivs: you're going to spend a lot of time waiting.

3. Once Oman is dead and done, Abu Dhabi should be ripe for the picking. They're tiny, but hey, it's land and pops.

4. It looks like Hejaz is happy to accept an alliance day one with Yemen? If that's typically the case, then go for it. While the Ottomans are still an ally/GP, you can't touch them anyways without a mess of luck so you might as well try and use them to help bully around the rest of the peninsula, namely Nejd.

5. The Ottomans are a waiting game. It's very, very rare that they don't eventually lose Great Power status, either from nations with high literacy like the Netherlands simply passing them, Russia deciding to slap them around for the lulz of it, or a crisis in the Balkans bringing a world of hurt down on their heads. Eventually they'll be broken, or at the very least in the process of being broken: you'll probably need to wait until then to strike Hejaz. If you're super lucky Hejaz or the Ottomans will get a revolution and have all their diplomatic relations reset. No matter the case, it's another waiting game.

6. You actually have solid access to a lot of land that can be potentially conquered to speed up Westernizing. You can cross the Red Sea without ships and hit Ethiopia or Egypt, and with access you can even reach up to Persia and the various minors outside its borders. Egypt, though, is a solid candidate since they'll almost certainly get squished over and over by the Ottomans at some point.

You're definitely not just simply dicking around waiting to Westernize. Yes, that's the end goal and yes, there will be a substantial amount of dicking around watching the clock. Your first and primary focus has absolutely, 100% of the time, got to be getting all the military reforms that give you research points for conquest before you spend any other reform point. And ideally, you won't conquer a single thing until you have at least one of those (more can be better, but that can be a mind-numbing level of waiting). Though you'd also, ideally, want to wait for someone to sphere you to reduce the costs even further. But the Arabian states are usually down near the bottom of the AI's priority for sphereing, on account of being dirt poor resources wise until oil shows up, so that may not be realistic with Yemen.


It's really a game of patience, and Yemen is going to be one of the Uncivs near the top of the difficulty ladder (at least you're not Morocco and praying Spain, the UK, and France all never get any ideas about invading you in the first decade!). I'd say your best bet is to split up Oman and Zanzibar and make Portugal your best friend then work from there.


... and I just saw that Yemen doesn't accept Bedouin. So yeah, can see why Hejaz is such a tempting target. Still, gotta be patient. The Ottomans will break on their own in time.

 

[darth254]

wow, thank you for all that input. very detailed and insightful.

 

[Owl Raider]

The above post is a great analysis. With that said, if you aren't experienced with uncivilized nations than I recommend you start with the easier ones first. Japan is the easiest by far thanks to the Early Meiji Restoration decision(always take that over the normal Meiji Restoration). China is 2nd easiest due to its sheer size and massive army that keeps you safe. From there things start to get tougher, Persia is a good choice at that stage as it's in the middle east but not too tough compared to other uncivs and will prepare you well for the tougher ones like the Arabian and Maghreb minors. Than comes the main uncivs in South East Asia: Siam and Dai Nam. Only after you have at least 2-3 games with some of the above uncivs under your belt you should get into the toughest ones like Yemen or any of the other Arabian/Maghreb minors.

 

[grimkm]

In my evil despotic mind, I make alliances when playing with any country willing to join me on the Arabian peninsula. I then force them to fight a war for me, they end up wasting their army, so once the war is over, I can wage war on them. Perhaps gamey, or perhaps just sheer genius tactician.

 

[Aedelvice]

I don't think that's particularly gamey. It's a sort of tactic that's been used in historical examples.

 

[darth254]

In my evil despotic mind, I make alliances when playing with any country willing to join me on the Arabian peninsula. I then force them to fight a war for me, they end up wasting their army, so once the war is over, I can wage war on them. Perhaps gamey, or perhaps just sheer genius tactician.

any tips on manipulating allies into doing this? I tried allying with Hedjaz and/or Nejd but neither will do jacksquat in a war for me. The "Call Allies" is usually "Unlikely" or whatever and they say "no" despite 200 relations.

 

[Aedelvice]

Who are you trying to goad them into fighting? If you're trying to take on someone like the Ottomans or even Ethiopia sometimes, they would rather cower away and lose your alliance than enter into what they see as an obvious slaughter. Getting people into your conflicts is largely a numbers game, the side with the most pointy bits wins.

 

[darth254]

Who are you trying to goad them into fighting? If you're trying to take on someone like the Ottomans or even Ethiopia sometimes, they would rather cower away and lose your alliance than enter into what they see as an obvious slaughter. Getting people into your conflicts is largely a numbers game, the side with the most pointy bits wins.

oh no, I was trying to get like Nejd after Hedjaz or like Hedjaz after Oman, but no can do. I guess if the comp factors in like friendly I can see why Nejd wouldn't go after Hedjaz, but like Oman is usually stuck allied with Abu Dhabi and that's it, and I don't know why Hedjaz chickens out of that.

Is there a particular cassus belli finessing that works or doesn't work with calling allies? I was setting them to like either conquest or free country, so they were of the harsher variety.