Yea... 50% faction created after 2 min of new reign

[Kidneythump]

Well it was fun while it lasted, the new emperor's brother got about half of the ERE to rebel and won a crushing victory after roughly half a year due to insane war score generation, seriously why should 1 lost holding in Italy result in 10% warscore when the emperor is in Constantinople (and yes the duke of said holding answered directly to the emperor), I feel this needs to be fixed somehow, for the rebelling faction to siege an additional 10 crappy provinces was easily accomplished, I had barely time to gather an army and move out before the war was lost.

Sorry for the ragepost but this game makes me so frustrated some times. Still the best game ever though

 

[Cetan]

Don't have a hated Emperor? I'm not sure what to say.

 

[cyrileom]

Apparently the problem is AI love to just jump into factions willy nilly. There wasn't exactly much he could do, considering just about everyone and his mother would dogpile on a faction regardless of relations. At least from what I hear.

 

[ziamatt]

Agreed. Installing a new ruler or pressing a claim internally should be at least as difficult as it would be for an invading nation and should really require most of the realm plus the capital to be occupied.

 

[Westernesse]

Weird, in my experience with empires/2 plus kingdom kings is that factions rarely get over 20% power, even then its usually cause I'm several holdings over my demense limit from newly conquered territory. Players can just minimalize them, when you get a new ruler hand out land/release a prisoner/give gifts from all the gold you should of saved up cause your ruler was old/going to die soon (previous ruler was maimed for example).

 

[riknap]

interestingly, the main reason that seems to be why losing faction wars is a likely occurrence is because, as you pointed out, when the enemy sieges and captures holdings of direct vassals, they have a large war-score effect
at the same time, capturing and sieging the holdings of vassals who are fighting against you but are not part of the faction itself and were just called in an alliance doesn't seem to add much warscore
it doesn't help if the revolters are all over the place. even with a superior army, so long as they are geographically distant from each other enough that they blitz enough castles and cities, they'll reach 100% before you could defeat all their armies and re-siege capture provinces

granted, in my game, almost all the despots/king-level vassals of the ERE are of my dynasty, so if one joins a faction and revolts, he could easily call some-one who doesn't like me enough to his side :laugh:

 

[nyah]

Keep a large retinue and put an army in each of the more powerful faction members capitals. Clearly if you are caught unawares this might not be possible, but if you keep five or six stacks of 10000 spread around your realm you should be able to deal with revolts fairly easily. If the warscore gets close to the 100% and you think you'll lose then you can always try assassination.

You get a CB on any independence rebellions you lose so you can always take them back on your own terms.

 

[unperson]

I actually like the faction system the way it is now, you realy have to be carefull aout your vassals opinions.
Use the spymasters scheme mission to remove powerfull members from factions. With a good spymaster you can dismantle even strong factions pretty fast.

 

[unmerged(445219)]

Go to the 1337 and take a look at all the Emperors that didn't gain the throne by inheritance. Every other emperor is of a different dynasty, besides a few exceptional dynasties. Hell, the HRE is elective and they have dynasties hold the throne for longer. Holding onto the throne of an empire shouldn't be easy.

 

[grumphie]

imo, large wars like installing a claimant or invasion should require MUCH more territory hold on large empires. sure, if youre denmark losing the area of holstein is a crushing blow. but if youre the restored roman empire holding mesopotamia, syria, jeruzalem, egypt ect. losing the city of nonimportance really shouldnt give 5% warscore, maybe 0.1.

 

[Kidneythump]

Go to the 1337 and take a look at all the Emperors that didn't gain the throne by inheritance. Every other emperor is of a different dynasty, besides a few exceptional dynasties. Hell, the HRE is elective and they have dynasties hold the throne for longer. Holding onto the throne of an empire shouldn't be easy.

I'm actually fine with plots for the throne, what threw me of was that it assembled all of it's member in 1-2 months and then proceeded to go for the title, it just feels so abrupt, I would like a slower progression so that you actually have a chance to fix the situation. Oh and lower war scores for occupied holdings that aren't my own holdings. If Italy makes a bid for the the ERE throne, one shouldn't lose 70-80 war score because they manage to siege the duchy of Toulouse and Firenze.

 

[Velger]

The problem is that they're too happy to join any and every faction just because you don't have 90+ relations with them. They should need at least like sub 30 relations before they consider joining a faction, otherwise absolutely every new ruler is dealing with a mass rebellion of epic proportions during every succession. Keeping a large personal army doesn't always work very well, as the rebellion is often given a huge number of free soldiers based on their relative power to yours, which will generally give them equal or greater power to you.


Either that, or they should need some kind of motivation. They have no motivation whatsoever to join factions right now; they simply do it because it's an option to choose, much like with plots. I've had multiple instances of dukes trying to install their own counts on my throne who hate them and would immediately turn around and revoke their ducal/county titles. Heck, one of them had even been imprisoned repeatedly and had one of his own county titles revoked by the duke; what would the duke possibly have to gain by screwing himself over like that?

 

[Zireael]

Yeah, vassals are extremely happy to join factions. Some modders tried tweaking the AI when it comes to factions. Try CK2+.

 

[Nuril]

I actually like the faction system the way it is now, you realy have to be carefull aout your vassals opinions.

But that's irrelevant. I have very high to 100 opinion characters joining in factions against me constantly.

 

[Kidneythump]

A case in point, the Venetians decided to form a faction for the independence minded counts and dukes in the empire. They only managed to entice a few of my vassals this time, the only one of any real danger was the king of Sicily who can field around 60-70 troops. The picture is taken directly after I scrambled half way across half the map via boat to lift a siege on Rome and Treviso. Meanwhile the duke of Mosul is rampaging across the Levant, it's important to note that none of the holdings the enemies are currently holding is one of my demesnes. The thing i find baffling is that relatively minor holdings like Al Jazira and Treviso should impact the course of the war to such a degree, I'm pretty sure I'll win this but take a look at the number of hostile sieges on the right in the next few turns they double, the amount of micromanagement needed to take all of these out before the siege timer runs out is giving me a headache, and that's not taking into account the big deathblob heading for Constantinople from Sicily (that's right, why go by boat when you can trudge halfway across Europe) at least that one is will be kinda fun to deal with (with positioning and the like)

 

[meseejos]

I have found selected assassination can end some of the faction wars, (accept doges for some reason )

 

[donaldduck]

Now vassals only think about their relations with the liege. But Vassals should think more about the relation with the faction leader too, then decide to join the faction or not. Since I,the liege, have to improve relation at 80+ with my vassals to let them leave the faction, why shouldn't the faction leader only get faction members that have relation 80+ with him?

And the vassals who have border with powerful infidels or claim holders should be more reluctant to join the faction for independence. It is clear that they, without the protection of the liege, will be easily destroyed by the powerful infidels.

 

[Kidneythump]

Now vassals only think about their relations with the liege. But Vassals should think more about the relation with the faction leader too, then decide to join the faction or not. Since I,the liege, have to improve relation at 80+ with my vassals to let them leave the faction, why shouldn't the faction leader only get faction members that have relation 80+ with him?

And the vassals who have border with powerful infidels or claim holders should be more reluctant to join the faction for independence. It is clear that they, without the protection of the liege, will be easily destroyed by the powerful infidels.

I agree with the last part but not with the first, one doesn't have to like the faction leader since that's kinda irrelevant most of the time. If you want to institute elective succession or put a claimant on the throne (so long as the claimant isn't the faction leader) your opinion of the faction leader doesn't matter, only the goal is relevant yes?

 

[donaldduck]

I agree with the last part but not with the first, one doesn't have to like the faction leader since that's kinda irrelevant most of the time. If you want to institute elective succession or put a claimant on the throne (so long as the claimant isn't the faction leader) your opinion of the faction leader doesn't matter, only the goal is relevant yes?

Yes, sometimes factions were formed only because vassals all don‘t like the liege very much. But if a vassal has far better relation with the liege than faction leader, for example, 60 with the liege and -30 with the faction leader, shouldn't he be reluctant to join the faction , or more likely leaves the faction , or more likely wavers when rebelling? He should think about more, especially when it's a faction for independence.

 

[LarryLeica]

Go to the 1337 and take a look at all the Emperors that didn't gain the throne by inheritance. Every other emperor is of a different dynasty, besides a few exceptional dynasties. Hell, the HRE is elective and they have dynasties hold the throne for longer. Holding onto the throne of an empire shouldn't be easy.

That's democracy for you; groups of landed elites manipulate the system so they hold on to power, gives the peasants an illusion of choice when they actually have none, works in real-life, works in-game too!

Plato where art thou?