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Cliges

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, du er noget." The first you list. I.e. you're not to think that you're as good as the collective---i.e. you're not the equal of the whole, but only a mere cock in the machinery.
So there is no contradiction---at least not as far as I can see.


"Cog", Wagonlitz.

Cog.
 

Wagonlitz

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yes, it was that clip. i see the appeal in jante
You're right that the clip is quite simplistic. (Also the top tax rate is around 55% and you only pay it if you make more than around 80k USD a year; otherwise you pay around 37%.)

And as they also said in that clip, the Jante law is also often derided for keeping individualism down. Now the great minds will still come forth, but it isn't actively promoting them to be as individually successful as possible like how's done in the US.
Not that that necessarily is bad though. Depends on your mindset. And they're completely right in saying that money don't really make you happy. And especially at inheritances things can get ugly if you have considerable wealth, and it might even permanently split families. To be frank I'm quite happy about not being super rich.
There's way more to life than money. I'd actually argue that money probably is one of the less important things---as long as you aren't dirt poor. Things like family are way more important.

"Cog", Wagonlitz.

Cog.
Blast; thought it looked wrong when I wrote it, but didn't think further about it.
 

Wagonlitz

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Almost forgot.

As you may or may not know somebody leeched around 1.8 billion USD from the Danish tax authorities a few years back. If you as a foreigner earns money on stocks in a particular way you're entitled to have your taxes on said particular earnings refunded; somebody then decided to claim earnings he never had made and hence milk the system big time. The scam also involved several banks and some large British banks are trying to cover their arses at the moment and hence have frozen the part of the scammed money which hadn't yet been transfered to Dubai. Though they might well still be criminally responsible. Several American retirement funds also participated in the scam and they too have been scrambling to cover their arses (their biggest problem is that there's no doubt they used the scam so they pretty much need to find some kind of fall guy). They might end up having to repay very large sums due to the large scale tax evasion they have committed. The main suspect is a man called Sanjay Shah who lives in Dubai.
imagescaler


Anyway safeguards have been implemented and one of them have been rolled out this year for the annual tax returns. The tax man does your tax returns; if you then think there's an error you can correct it. The system now automatically blocks corrections which are suspicious. For instance if you claim to live in a listed house (and hence shouldn't pay any property or land taxes), but the databases show that you live in an unlisted house.

Or if you try to get a tax deduction for driving to work, but the databases have you listed as unemployed.



The reason listed houses have no land or property taxes is that you can't really do anything to them unless you have explicit consent from cultural heritage department. Say you think that the two very tiny rooms in your house aren't really usable for anything and you hence remove the wall between them to get a usable small room. Well if the cultural heritage department didn't approve beforehand then they will force you to undo the change. And you will need to use period accurate materials and methods---and that's expensive as heck. If the wall was made of straw, manure, and planks well then the new one will have to be made of it too. And if the wall was some really elaborate masonry wall by a master mason well then you will need to find a mason capable of replicating the work of this master mason and you'll have to pay him whatever he charges to get it rebuilt. And he of course is not allowed to use any powertools, since those did not exist 200 years ago. He'll need to do it ye olde way with backbreaking hand tools. (So as a piece of advice do not piss off the cultural heritage department by changing things without permission; had you applied for permission you might have been allowed to remove/move the wall, but doing the work and then hoping that fait acompli will get you off the hook will only make them mad at you.)

A few years ago a large mansion burned in Copenhagen; rebuilding cost is at least 30 million USD because it was listed; the cultural heritage department simply pulled forth the 250 years old blueprints and handed them over to the insurance company telling them that it should be rebuilt exactly as it was with period accurate materials and methods. For instance the roof was constructed by Pomeranian spruce, which is quite rare these days, but the cultural heritage department stated that even if they'd have to plant a plantation and wait for it to grow large enough then that was what they'd have to do.

It's good to know that our cultural heritage is in good hands who won't let anything happen to it.
 

Rovsea

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I don't understand this Jante Law business. It seems to spit in the face of self-improvement.
 

Cliges

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I don't understand this Jante Law business. It seems to spit in the face of self-improvement.

That's why. This isn't about the self. It's social.

Set aside your normative views on the matter and ask what function it serves and if it succeeds in doing so. If you fear individualism poses a threat to a cohesive society, mores like Jante Law make perfect sense.
 

Rovsea

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That's why. This isn't about the self. It's social.

Set aside your normative views on the matter and ask what function it serves and if it succeeds in doing so. If you fear individualism poses a threat to a cohesive society, mores like Jante Law make perfect sense.
One can argue between society and individual all day, but at the end it must be acknowledged that some people are better suited for certain tasks than others. Some are more intelligent, more driven, more knowledgeable, etc. It's a fact that has and will always exist. It's where innovation and creativity come from, and to ignore new ideas simply because they disrupt society is stupid in the extreme. To some extent, society needs to be disrupted.
 

Cliges

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One can argue between society and individual all day, but at the end it must be acknowledged that some people are better suited for certain tasks than others. Some are more intelligent, more driven, more knowledgeable, etc. It's a fact that has and will always exist. It's where innovation and creativity come from, and to ignore new ideas simply because they disrupt society is stupid in the extreme. To some extent, society needs to be disrupted.

What's that to do with anything? I'm not that I follow.
 

Rovsea

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What's that to do with anything? I'm not that I follow.
I'm trying to argue that thinking that you are not above average, and therefore discouraging being above average in some capacity, is inherently harmful. Ergo, Jante Law is inherently harmful. One should not aim for conformity within a country, in my opinion.
 

Cliges

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I'm trying to argue that thinking that you are not above average, and therefore discouraging being above average in some capacity, is inherently harmful. Ergo, Jante Law is inherently harmful. One should not aim for conformity within a country, in my opinion.

You might misunderstand. It's about being above average but not seeing that as "special".
 

Rovsea

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You might misunderstand. It's about being above average but not seeing that as "special".
But shouldn't one at least know if they are above average? Jante Law seems to imply that you can't think of yourself as better than anybody else in any respect.
 

Cliges

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But shouldn't one at least know if they are above average? Jante Law seems to imply that you can't think of yourself as better than anybody else in any respect.

Why would it matter? Need you a high opinion of yourself in order to function as a member of society?



@Wagonlitz Am I doing this correctly?
 

Rovsea

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Why would it matter? Need you a high opinion of yourself in order to function as a member of society?



@Wagonlitz Am I doing this correctly?
I would say that self esteem is important for functioning at your best.
 

Rovsea

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Why do you need external validation beyond knowing that you did your part?
Because social acceptance and validation is a major motivator for most people.
 

Rovsea

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Can't you have that without it being about how special or exceptional you are?
To an extent, certainly, but distinguishing yourself improves your standing in the eyes of others. Personally, I do not see how one should expect or intend to be "normal". Instead, one should aim to get ahead, to be better than others. It's this concept that one needs to get ahead that drives competition and excellency. It's also to one's benefit to spread the idea that one is better. For instance, when attempting to get a job one doesn't enter the job interview pleading to be "normal". You want to display that you are special or exceptional, a good investment to whomever is hiring.
 

Lemeard

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@Wagonlitz What would the income tax rate be in Denmark for someone earning 38 000 euros per year? Follow up: is there a big difference between living in Köpenhamn and elsewhere?