YAST (Yet Another Supply Thread)

[flossy]

How are supply paths really calculated ? In a game I have right now most of my supply seem to route through a 0/5 infrastructure province (it's bombed to 0/5), however it has alternative routes though longer distance. Does supply path only consider shortest path and *built* infrastructure ?

Hm, when I think of it....(i'm sure someone has already suggested this/similar) maybe supply should use paths similar as IP routing protocols (OSPF,IS-IS etc) use paths/links. Considering each province having a cost calculated by it's current infrastructure level and distance from capital....

 

[unmerged(91248)]

I can't figure out how it works for the life of me. I tell ya, it's a real pain in the ass!

 

[flossy]

Having a really frustrating moment right now trying to invade the US with GER, needing an insane amount of naval bases to get enough supplies to my sizeable army (which is needed to counter 225 regiment stacks thrown at me).

I think a Zapp Branningan quote sums this battle up nicely :
"it was simply a matter of outsmarting them...so i sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they each hit their preset kill limit and self destructed"

 

[snoopy1710]

....

I really thought you were talking about something else entirely:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yet_another_Setup_Tool

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Snoopy

 

[szcott69]

Pretty sure it follows the shortest route from source to destination. Doesnt care about infra levels. I think you can determine the route by clicking on a unit in the source location and issuing it a movement order to the destination.
You can test verify it by looking at the supply map - you should see a green route for the most part from the source to your dest. - at least parts of the route should be green

 

[Zetta]

My Sinkiang playthrough went all to hell once I started to get away from Di Hua, won one or two of my wars thanks entirely to the dropping of new units and the supplies they start with.

Still was messed up even after upping my infastructure in all my provinces because it's nearly impossible to be able to predict where the supply routes will start to appear once you begin invading the Soviets.

 

[flossy]

yeah i'm getting more and more confused as I try to understand why some units stationed 1 province away from a 10/10 naval base don't get supply. I also noticed something, if I move a unit back and forth (only 1 unit in the stack) from the naval base province it seems to "bring" with it some supplies, as all units in the stack suddenly get partially supplied for a short period.

 

[unmerged(7806)]

Calculating the path of least resistance between point A and B, is basic knowledge in "linear algebra".

Each path between each province has a path value (in this case it should be infra). and the algorithm fines the path with the least "resistance" quite easy

that being said. some modifications is needed in a system where there are basically thousands and thousands of possible routs and the algorithm should be modified to only pick the most likely routs as starting points.

It would be complete with the option of the human making changes on the paths taken..
alas that is prolly not going to happend :wacko:

nappy.

 

[unmerged(91248)]

@Nappy.

That's why I'm confused. It doesn't seem to follow that rule and when the supply system gets stressed it collapses, with swathes of units going out of supply, rather than individual divisions (at the end of the supply network) going out of supply.

 

[flossy]

yeah maybe "path value" or "cost" should be a calculated from *actual* infrastructure level and congestion(current supply throughput) which is used by the supply depot to find best path to the unit. If this was somehow implemented, it would benefit the pathfinder-AI aswell, optimizing unit movement paths from "A" to "B".

 

[unmerged(91248)]

Why not have several supply paths (in parrallel)? Also, logistical capacity associated with each HQ. Then the more HQs you have in theatre, the more pull you have for the supply.

It would be nice also to know how much supply a unit has in it's local store (# days supply), rather than unit is in supply/out of supply.

 

[flossy]

Why not have several supply paths (in parrallel)?

That's what would happen if the supply "AI" considered congestion, as in avoiding supply choke points.

It would be nice also to know how much supply a unit has in it's local store (# days supply), rather than unit is in supply/out of supply.

Agree!

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Same problem here as ITA. Supply lines go right through the 1-infra Sahara desert provinces to support 5 divisions fighting in central africe, though it would be faster and more efficent to use the 5 infra routes along the nile river and then move it inland - but with this my supply chain is overloaded. Wouldn't be too much of a problem if the AI would only demand as much supplies as it needs, but atm I have about 45k supplies and 10k fuel stacking in northern africa while my national reserves are completly empty...

 

[szcott69]

Why not have several supply paths (in parrallel)? Also, logistical capacity associated with each HQ. Then the more HQs you have in theatre, the more pull you have for the supply.

It would be nice also to know how much supply a unit has in it's local store (# days supply), rather than unit is in supply/out of supply.

You do! just look at supply map When you place a new unit, check its supply requirements, you then notice on the supply map an amount equal to 30 times that in that province, and it takes it with it when it moves.

Now you're moving, shooting etc and out run your supply trucks moving at 1 province per day, and the supplies they are transporting are being reduced by supply tax and the infra levels of the provinces they are being carried through. Sooner or later you have to stop long enough for everything to catch up, and if you want to continue with 30 days supply, you have to wait until that amount catches up.

 

[unmerged(91248)]

Upon reflection. in addition to an indicator of the supply a unit has in it's local store (# days supply), I'd also like an indicator of the change in this store in the previous day (e.g. +1.2, -1.2, +0).

 

[Thurak]

Those problems you describe... are those overseas territories? There is (still) something pretty much messed up with supplies, because there is one supply depot each oversea territory.

Example: In India you have one depot sitting in the central south of India. All delivered supplies move TO the depot first before being delivered.. Thus, troops landed in Rangoon have to wait at least 20 days until the supplies reach them. And then the infrastructure between the depot and the troops plays a significant role as well while those troops SHOULD be supplied from Rangoon or another supply depot nearby.

In 1.2 you could produce a logistical nightmare as Japan: You owned China, Burma and India and all you got was one supply depot with bad luck in India. So all supplies for your troops in North China moved through some really low infrastructure provinces between India and China and therefore you had huge supply problems where you shouldn't have any.

Maybe they should add a "at least one supply depot per theatre" policy to prevent that from happening...

 

[flossy]

I think the concept of 1 major supply depot distributing supply to all units in a mesh is sketchy. It opens doors for "metagaming" and choke points.
Could it be better solved with smaller sized depots which are automagically deployed (on demand) when supply depots and units reach a certain distance. These supply depots would then
behave as buffers so the supply won't be as fluctuating? I'll bet there are many ways to solve this but there might be restrictions in the game/engine that we don't know of.

I got one question though, how are supplies sent ? in a continuous stream or in pulses/batches (like 30days of supply to unit X moving from capital to the unit province by province at a given speed) ?

 

[unmerged(91248)]

I think the concept of 1 major supply depot distributing supply to all units in a mesh is sketchy.

Indeed, I think this is the crux of the issue. I think we need supply nodes in each region (1 level up from the province level), which passes supply to the provinces in the region. All these supplies flying around the place is madness (especially given the supply tax and impact it has on supply thoughput bandwidth).

It's not how it's currently designed though, so I fear it mightn't be addressed.

As an interim measure, can someone give me pointers on how to do the following:
- how to increase supply throughput & decrease supply tax.
- how to modify provences to add some more ports to mainland China.

I think this is the only way for me to enjoy the game fully until this is addressed properly in-game.

 

[Myndpyre]

I am currently looking for a way to mod-out or negate the entire supply system. Yes, turn the entire thing off, all units are in full supply at all times as long as they can trace any line. Regardless of the country I play, I end up with massive supply issues and really just want the entire system removed from the game at this point.

So far all I can find is modifying the difficulty levels of the game, perhaps the supply modifiers there if set at stupid high rates would override the supply system collapse issue.

Whatever the bug is, it doesn't happen at first, it works great at first, it collapses upon itself after a time with no rhyme or reason to why it is doing it.

 

[Onedreamer]

Example: In India you have one depot sitting in the central south of India. All delivered supplies move TO the depot first before being delivered

no
no
no
no x 1000 times. And don't ask to explain why, it has been explained 1000 times.