XP rates seem too low in 3.10

[Thiend]

Not much else to say, I've done some testing with different configurations and for most leaders, level 4-5 is about the cap with a default lifespan, while some roles struggle to even reach a veteran class (governors especially) and roles like Explorer are just pointless because they don't level fast enough to make an impact. Now, granted, lifespan increases aren't that hard to come by - but I can't help feeling that you shouldn't  need lifespan increases to get good use out of leaders after their gigantic rework, focusing on leaders in traits or choices in-game should be for getting long-term use out of them at high level, not allowing them to reach high level in the first place - which would still make leader focus more valuable because then a leader-focused build would get their high level leaders faster and have longer with them.

Also, semi-related, I don't necessarily disagree that some xp boosts were too high, but now many of them are worthless. A 10% xp boost trait is completely useless now because level xp costs go up and there are only 10 levels, meaning that at best this might get one leader to level 5 slightly faster but they can never even be two levels ahead from this trait. I would suggest some need higher percentages and some should just be changed to higher starting level, with higher point cost if necessary. I'm not convinced that 10% xp from quick learners is even worth the single trait point it costs, if it cost 0 it would still not be a must-pick because of the limit on number of traits. It's that useless. It gets worse when coupled with other xp boosts as all additive bonuses do because it rapidly ceases to be "leader is ahead in level for ~10% of a level" and becomes "leader is ahead in level for ~5% of a level," which would be more worthless except the first is worthless already so it really just makes the problem even more obvious.

Summary for those who didn't read my rambling: xp with no focus is a little too low, xp with focus is way too low. Would be better for general QoL if people didn't have to focus leaders to reliably get them to level 5 and people who did focus them could semi-reliably get them to destiny traits.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

The main problem with leaderXP% was that it was fairly easy to get about 250%+ XP to all leaders, and well in excess of 300% to the council by 2250 in 3.8 and 3.9.

This led to a number of interesting issues, my favourite of which was going all in on Eye for Talent II on the council and saving anomalies until the 2220s when you'd stacked the first few XP modifiers, and then powerleveling 2 scientists chaining anomalies to reach level 8 around 2240 - and that was without abusing the Agenda XP mill of Amongst Peers, which could be used to level leaders across the board once you could churn agendas rapidly and had enough available that you wouldn't run out.

In 3.10 the developers halved some of the XP modifiers and removed others entirely, but there are still a fair amount to stack if you want it.

More interesting is perhaps the way the focus has been shifted towards recruiting higher level leaders by introducing more Initial Leader Skill modifiers to the game.

It looks like the intention is that we generally recruit higher level leaders as time goes by (assuming we are interested in that and willing to pay the opportunity cost), thus making new hires immediately useful with veteran levels rather than the 3.8 and 3.9 system where at most they started out at level 3 (Capacity Boosters) with a 10% chance for 1-2 levels extra, but that they then gain the final veteran levels considerably more slowly.

And if you let a leader die? Then, assuming you've invested in your education system ( ), you'll be replacing them with another mid- or high-level leader.

This post lists all the current sources of Initial Leader Skill.

3.10: Don't panic. High Level Leaders are easier to get than one might think from the patch notes

Okay.. for all of us sighing about the Statecraft agenda XP balance changes to Leadership Conditioning and Amongst Peers, and the significant reduction to XP% increases, and how it'll become much harder and take much longer to get high level...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[Thiend]

The main problem with leaderXP% was that it was fairly easy to get about 250%+ XP to all leaders, and well in excess of 300% to the council by 2250 in 3.8 and 3.9.

This led to a number of interesting issues, my favourite of which was going all in on Eye for Talent II on the council and saving anomalies until the 2220s when you'd stacked the first few XP modifiers, and then powerleveling 2 scientists chaining anomalies to reach level 8 around 2240 - and that was without abusing the Agenda XP mill of Amongst Peers, which could be used to level leaders across the board once you could churn agendas rapidly and had enough available that you wouldn't run out.

In 3.10 the developers halved some of the XP modifiers and removed others entirely, but there are still a fair amount to stack if you want it.

More interesting is perhaps the way the focus has been shifted towards recruiting higher level leaders by introducing more Initial Leader Skill modifiers to the game.

It looks like the intention is that we generally recruit higher level leaders as time goes by (assuming we are interested in that and willing to pay the opportunity cost), thus making new hires immediately useful with veteran levels rather than the 3.8 and 3.9 system where at most they started out at level 3 (Capacity Boosters) with a 10% chance for 1-2 levels extra, but that they then gain the final veteran levels considerably more slowly.

And if you let a leader die? Then, assuming you've invested in your education system ( ), you'll be replacing them with another mid- or high-level leader.

This post lists all the current sources of Initial Leader Skill.

3.10: Don't panic. High Level Leaders are easier to get than one might think from the patch notes

Okay.. for all of us sighing about the Statecraft agenda XP balance changes to Leadership Conditioning and Amongst Peers, and the significant reduction to XP% increases, and how it'll become much harder and take much longer to get high level...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

While hilarious, I think that's really bad game design because what it basically means is that if you build your empire right all species traits, civics etc effecting leaders are even more useless, as is investing in leaders you have generally. What it means is that all those xp bonuses are not only bad because of their numbers, they're bad because you can raise the recruit level of leaders about as fast as you can raise the actual level of your leaders, besides which with no specific opportunity cost you can relatively easily recruit leaders who have a Destiny trait from day 1 because they were level 8 or higher.

Basically it's a fix for "can't level leaders high even with a leader focus" by making every single thing about leaders irrelevant to focus on because you can get them to destiny traits with no real investment, no time, and no risk.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Looks like the devteam slammed hard on the breaks in the 3.10.1 beta, but at least you got another XP% source if you want that.

* Replaced Champions of the Empire +1 Initial Leader Level with +1 Additional Trait
* Reworked Driven Educator to instead provide +25% Leader XP gain