Xenophobic pacifist useless ?

[GaduLOL]

The xenophobic ethos gives alien slavery tolerance, war bonuses and an unknown special tech
But if you are pacifist, you do less war so you have less alien slaves (I think) and the war bonuses is useless.
So, do you think there is an interest to play this ethos combination ? (Perhaps the special xenophobic is very useful for pacifist empire ?)
Sorry if my sentences sounds weird, I am French ^^

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

You can get alien slaves in more ways than just war. You can uplift them, for example.

Also, remember that Pacifists in Stellaris can still make war; they just can't maintain long wars as easily. Short one-sided wars of conquest against weak single-planet empires are pretty easily stuff.

 

[FlyingOnion]

RP reasons I guess. Plenty of ethos combinations aren't suitable for a min-max style of gameplay, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be interesting from an RP perspective.
Plus you're only looking at the flat bonuses they give, there could be events or choices tied to the ethos that might make xenophobic pacifists viable

 

[DukeTowers]

Xenophobic pacifists are kind of that grumpy old man that lives on your neighborhood. He doesn't do anything harmful, but he will yell with you at full lungs if you come anywhere near his backyard.

 

[artist_designer]

Remember that the Pacifist trait only decreases the army damage, not your ships. So you can go to war, but you'll be incentivized to use allies' troops to occupy any planets you intend on taking in a peace deal (especially because the embassy bonus you'd get with pacifist will help with getting allies).

 

[Garfazz Steamfang]

Xenophobic pacifist can be an interesting choice for RP, even if you don't do slavery that could be nice to be that xenophobic isolationist but i doubt that it can be viable very late game with late crisis event. If you are xenophobic you have no federation and if you are pacifist you have not a big empire so pretty much it would be hard to resist to late game crisis.
We must see how it work in game

 

[GaduLOL]

RP reasons I guess. Plenty of ethos combinations aren't suitable for a min-max style of gameplay, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be interesting from an RP perspective.
Plus you're only looking at the flat bonuses they give, there could be events or choices tied to the ethos that might make xenophobic pacifists viable

Yes, I think xenophobic pacifist are viable for some unknown reasons
Even in a RP perspective, it would be a pity if some ethos combinations have incoherent advantages

 

[Brownbeard]

Xenophobic pacifist...the epitome of boring.

Xenophile militarist... friends and fun.

 

[Dregonoid]

Could you conquer another race who's traits do make them good for war? Make them a kind of slave species who do all the fighting. Or do the bonuses apply to your empire as a whole? Or just use some robots (providing the pacifist trait doesn't apply to them) to do all the fighting. I honestly would like to see achievements for winning a certain type of victory while having the opposite trait. eg Pacifist-Military domination

 

[TheGrinningMan]

I'm really not seeing any viable combination that isn't essentially outclassed by another build. Want to play the empire that wants to be left alone in its own borders? I feel like the player would be best served by ignoring xenophobe and xenophile, spending ethos points for better research, more happiness, extra energy credits, or greater internal slavery tolerance. Unless xenophobe offers a really efficient way to punish those who'd prod your borders, or there's been some tweaking to xenophobe to add a bonus that doesn't require aggression.

Maybe, possibly, xenophobe AIs will be willing to deal with fellow xenophobes better, in a "you want to be left alone, I want to be left alone, let's make a deal where we coexist, defend one another from conquerors and xenophile weirdos, and otherwise stay out of one another's way". But I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Chaos_TLW]

Could you conquer another race who's traits do make them good for war? Make them a kind of slave species who do all the fighting. Or do the bonuses apply to your empire as a whole? Or just use some robots (providing the pacifist trait doesn't apply to them) to do all the fighting. I honestly would like to see achievements for winning a certain type of victory while having the opposite trait. eg Pacifist-Military domination

Yeah, you can have armies of specific races, and these armies will be affected by traits and ethos. I'd wager that a race with Resilient and Strong would be good for defense, while a Very Strong with two assorted negative traits(sedentary and slow breeders, maybe?) would be good for offensive actions, and for both Fanatic Militarist(maximize army damage and avoid rebellion during war)+Xenophile(so it won't cause trouble by being near other aliens) is ideal.

I really like the idea of having a core of worlds populated by my pacifist race, with a buffer sector of militaristic, Resilient and Strong aliens protecting the rest of my Empire against a hostile one.

 

[CocoCincinnati]

I would probably RP a xenophobic pacifist empire as just extreme isolationists. Think the United States in the 1930's but magnified.

 

[Ex Mudder]

The xenophobic ethos gives alien slavery tolerance, war bonuses and an unknown special tech
But if you are pacifist, you do less war so you have less alien slaves (I think) and the war bonuses is useless.
So, do you think there is an interest to play this ethos combination ? (Perhaps the special xenophobic is very useful for pacifist empire ?)

Xenophobe gives War bonuses? I missed that. I thought it just made you dislike other races, and your pops less happy if they live next to a non enslaved alien pop.

I dislike Pacifist myself, the war penalties seem a bit much unless you want to play as a peaceful builder. But the governments are great.

 

[Chaos_TLW]

Xenophobe gives War bonuses? I missed that. I thought it just made you dislike other races, and your pops less happy if they live next to a non enslaved alien pop.

IIRC it lowers the cost for demanding planets of other phenotypes. It was mentioned some time ago, and again in this tweet from Wiz.

 

[telge2]

Xenophobic pacifist...the epitome of boring.

Xenophile militarist... friends and fun.

Xenophobic militarist... slaves and fun AND purging.

You can't beat that.

 

[Darustet]

I think pacifists are great, just look at Moral Democrazy and its flat +10% happiness, while extra embassies help to keep neighbours happy. Your empire will be stable and enjoy fast growth during peace, so it can better sustain short wars.

Adding xenophobe to that is great rp and since they get decreased warscore costs, it syncs with pacifist wanting short wars. Quick white peace and slaves can be very powerful addition to an empire that gives happiness bonuses, no matter the ethos or traits.

 

[Trithemius]

You can get alien slaves in more ways than just war. You can uplift them, for example.

Also, remember that Pacifists in Stellaris can still make war; they just can't maintain long wars as easily. Short one-sided wars of conquest against weak single-planet empires are pretty easily stuff.

That's great! Pacificist Cowards!

"We just want to be left in peace... so we can cowardly bully less-technological peoples into slavery..."

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

That's great! Pacificist Cowards!

"We just want to be left in peace... so we can cowardly bully less-technological peoples into slavery..."

Most bullies, ultimately, dislike an actual fight and will go to great lengths to avoid one. It's what exploitative systems are all about.

 

[Surimi]

I'm not sure where the assumption is coming from that pacifists will never end up at war.

Sure, pacifist pops have less tolerance for wars, but on the other hand pacifists have more embassies.. which means more friends, which means more fleets, which means more winning, which means more conquest.

I'm exaggerating, but seriously.. I really don't think pacifist is meant to be played as some kind of absolute non-violence faction.

 

[Garfazz Steamfang]

I'm not sure where the assumption is coming from that pacifists will never end up at war.

Sure, pacifist pops have less tolerance for wars, but on the other hand pacifists have more embassies.. which means more friends, which means more fleets, which means more winning, which means more conquest.

I'm exaggerating, but seriously.. I really don't think pacifist is meant to be played as some kind of absolute non-violence faction.

Yes but if you are xenophobe building alliance and federation are going to be hard.
We know by Wiz that xenophobe are going to have a "really good special tech" and a lower war cost. We need to see if that tech can be played with a pacific empire but lower war cost seems to go to the contrary of pacifist malus. I really don't know how pacific xenophobe are going to work...

Finally i really think that when we are going to have a trade/espionnage focused DLC playing as a pacifist empire are going to be a lot more interesting.