Xenophobic Egalitarians

[beckermt]

My egalitarians are angry that I allow population controls. However, they are not angry that I have enslaved entire species. They are ALSO annoyed that I allow Resettlement.

This is annoying, because I don't want my livestock running about muckin' up the place with their emigration and reproduction. My citizen species do NOT have any of these controls on, of course.

What the heck egalitarians!?

 

[Strangedane]

Egalitarians prefer freerange, organic xenoburgers.
Not that factory produced xenospam.

 

[beckermt]

Egalitarians prefer freerange, organic xenoburgers.
Not that factory produced xenospam.

Funny, but somewhat irritating that the overlap of these two ethics make a democracy with slavery (of non-persons) difficult.

 

[xsmilingbanditx]

Yeah well...eat them, tell them what to work...but at least let them bang who they want and where they want ^^

 

[yerm]

The egalitarian faction needs a second look. The ethic overall kind of does. It tries to be don't tread on me, meritocraric, socialist utopian, and inclusive...

 

[HandicapdHippo]

The egalitarian faction needs a second look. The ethic overall kind of does. It tries to be don't tread on me, meritocraric, socialist utopian, and inclusive...

It could do with multiple factions, kind of like how xenophobe has 2 factions, one is a militant supremacy faction and the other is an more peaceful isolationist faction.

 

[HisRotundity]

Xenophobic Egalitarianism and Xenophilic Authoritarianism just flat out don't work in Stellaris, and haven't since release, back when they were called Collectivist and Individualist. The factions have conflicting goals and if you make one faction happy the other one will be miserable, and vice-versa, to the extent that I have to wonder why they didn't either conflate the factions or actually make them mutually exclusive. Obviously I'd prefer that it be possible to have a xenophobic society that's internally egalitarian, or a xenophilic society that nevertheless has a strong internal hierarchy, but as the game stands you just can't really do either.

 

[Wolfgang I]

Xenophobic Egalitarianism and Xenophilic Authoritarianism just flat out don't work in Stellaris, and haven't since release, back when they were called Collectivist and Individualist. The factions have conflicting goals and if you make one faction happy the other one will be miserable, and vice-versa, to the extent that I have to wonder why they didn't either conflate the factions or actually make them mutually exclusive. Obviously I'd prefer that it be possible to have a xenophobic society that's internally egalitarian, or a xenophilic society that nevertheless has a strong internal hierarchy, but as the game stands you just can't really do either.

Xenophile authoritarian worked like a charm before this patch if you gave all xenos the normal version of caste system(not residence).

 

[DimeDrol]

The similar issue with Egalitarian+Materialist:
when you give synths citizen rights, egalitarian faction becomes angry, cause synths is forbidden to migrate. And it is impossible to allow them to migrate (in 2.2).
This bug in varying forms persists since Utopia.
Shame.

 

[RabbaDooDabba]

The egalitarian faction needs a second look. The ethic overall kind of does. It tries to be don't tread on me, meritocraric, socialist utopian, and inclusive...

this...

Xenophobic Egalitarianism and Xenophilic Authoritarianism just flat out don't work in Stellaris, and haven't since release, back when they were called Collectivist and Individualist. The factions have conflicting goals and if you make one faction happy the other one will be miserable, and vice-versa, to the extent that I have to wonder why they didn't either conflate the factions or actually make them mutually exclusive. Obviously I'd prefer that it be possible to have a xenophobic society that's internally egalitarian, or a xenophilic society that nevertheless has a strong internal hierarchy, but as the game stands you just can't really do either.

and this.

I really like the concept of slaving egalitarians but it is a shame that it's so difficult to work with

 

[Dustman]

this...

and this.

I really like the concept of slaving egalitarians but it is a shame that it's so difficult to work with

It actually works much better now than in any previous patches. Free equal main specie and bunch of xeno slaves. Works like a charm. Looks like Polish Commonwealth where all nobles are equal and all peasants aren't even human

 

[Avian Overlord]

How I would do the egalitarian faction WRT slavery is to give them a scaling unhappiness penalty based on the percentage of pops which are enslaved, like a reverse of the old rogue servitors. This would allow Egalitarian/Xenophobe isolationist and displacer empires to satisfy both factions, and allow slaver empires some mitigation without having the egalitarian completely ignore the most consistent egalitarian principle in the game.

 

[RabbaDooDabba]

It actually works much better now than in any previous patches. Free equal main specie and bunch of xeno slaves. Works like a charm. Looks like Polish Commonwealth where all nobles are equal and all peasants aren't even human

If I remember pre-2.2 right, the only issue was that the supremacy faction wanted core-world exclusitivity and the progressive faction had an issue with the policy not set to 'all species'
in 2.2 it is that you cannot resettle slaves anymore or put them under migration/population controls without taking policies the progressive factin hates :/

In my opinion, while it indeed got easier to play such a society, it's not quite there yet.

 

[Dustman]

Nobody said such combo is easy ;-) But you can now abduct people and brag about equality!

While you're indeed limited at pop management, most of your slaves will be egalitarian, supporting one of main factions' values. Only problem might be lack of specialists/rulers if you 'acquire' too many slaves, and if Residence is used instead of slavery, Isolationists will steal part of influence from Supremacists.

 

[LaznAzn]

I feel like a "Disallowed for citizens only" middle option for Resettlement and Population controls could work here. Little hazy on how it'd work with Population Controls in 2.2 however. Perhaps you can select the slave you want to grow but there's a 50/50 chance that a citizen species will grow instead. Additionally, an option to disallow any slaves from growing as a decision or in the pop selection menu for growth.

 

[szmik]

Factions? I completely ignore them without any issues. Why would I care what some factions want? Especially when they have contradicting issues.

It's negligible mechanic anyway.

 

[beckermt]

Factions? I completely ignore them without any issues. Why would I care what some factions want? Especially when they have contradicting issues.

It's negligible mechanic anyway.

Because a massive +20% boost (or more!) in the happiness of a quarter of my population (who are primarily specialists and rulers) means more stability which means more output.

 

[karimjebari]

According to the wiki, you can always resettle slaves. Forbidden resettlement means only that free species can't be resettled.
https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Policies

 

[Wolfgang I]

Because a massive +20% boost (or more!) in the happiness of a quarter of my population (who are primarily specialists and rulers) means more stability which means more output.

Since 2.2 you get a max of +10% happiness and a minimum of - 10% happiness.
That and the fact that even factions with low approval give some influnce now makes them easier to ignore now.

 

[YertyL]

I feel like a "Disallowed for citizens only" middle option for Resettlement and Population controls could work here. Little hazy on how it'd work with Population Controls in 2.2 however. Perhaps you can select the slave you want to grow but there's a 50/50 chance that a citizen species will grow instead. Additionally, an option to disallow any slaves from growing as a decision or in the pop selection menu for growth.

This. Authoritarians and Egalitarians should be about the treatment of citizens, xenophile/xenophobe about who (specifically: which organic) becomes a citizen in the first place, and the treatment of non-citizens.