Xenophobe vs Collectivist

[zukodark]

Both of them grant as large bonuses to slavery tolerance; but xenophobe when enslaving aliens. At the same time, xenophobe grants the more xenophobia, which the red text indicates is bad. Collectivist decreases food requirement on the other hand. If you disregard events, available governments and in-game choices, of course flavor too, is collectivist always better than xenophobe, whatever your playstyle?

 

[I_AM_King_Midas]

Collectivist grants slave tolerance where as xenophobic grants alien slsve tolerance. Alien Slavs tolerance is likely about how ok your people are about making others slaves. Space tolerance is likely how ok are your people with being slaves themselves.

 

[moglus]

Both of them grant as large bonuses to slavery tolerance; but xenophobe when enslaving aliens. At the same time, xenophobe grants the more xenophobia, which the red text indicates is bad. Collectivist decreases food requirement on the other hand. If you disregard events, available governments and in-game choices, of course flavor too, is collectivist always just than xenophobe, whatever your playstyle?

I does honestly seem like that is the case.
Collectivist gives you the same bonus to slavery tolerance but without the restriction that the slaves must be aliens for it to apply,
And it doesn't give you extra xenophobia, which would just cause unrest if your empire isn't mono-racial

(which is just one of many reasons why i think the slavery tolerance bonus from collectivist should be replaced by a lower ethos divergence modifier)

Collectivist grants slave tolerance where as xenophobic grants alien slsve tolerance. Alien Slavs tolerance is likely about how ok your people are about making others slaves. Space tolerance is likely how ok are your people with being slaves themselves.

Until i hear a dev explicitly say that slavery tolerance and xeno slavery tolerance aren't additive modifiers, i'm going to assume that they are.

 

[Sielgaudys]

So is it just flat slavery bonus or does collectivist potentially can support xenophilia, but also slavery, because slavery in that case would be based not on pop races(xenophobia) but rather will be how society works, indenture servitude as a norm??

 

[GVegt]

I believe some things worth keeping in mind that ethos seems to affect events, science choices and government options in addition to the basic bonuses. It's unlikely to be as simple as it seems at first. In particular, it looks like being any type of collectivist locks you out of democracy type governments and that being collectivist fanatics locks you into autocratic governments.

This won't necessarily be bad, but if you want a slaver democracy collectivism seems out of the question; and government type will likely have major gameplay impacts.

 

[Aramel]

Also, keep in mind that the bonuses from ethos have changed several times during development. They may change again before the game is released. At one point Xenophobia gave cheaper claiming of alien systems. Maybe that bonus is still there, but is no longer displayed on the ethos selection screen, or maybe they are still figuring out what to replace it with.

 

[Tiaexz]

 

[GC13]

Until i hear a dev explicitly say that slavery tolerance and xeno slavery tolerance aren't additive modifiers, i'm going to assume that they are.

Individualist xenophobe empires are weakened unless they're separate. The whole point of picking xenophobe is to enslave aliens, but a fanatic individualist xenophobe would still see their people getting upset over enslaving the aliens they really don't like.

 

[moglus]

Individualist xenophobe empires are weakened unless they're separate. The whole point of picking xenophobe is to enslave aliens, but a fanatic individualist xenophobe would still see their people getting upset over enslaving the aliens they really don't like.

from what i saw of quill18's gameplay, it isn't even possible to have slavery enabled if you have even one point in xenophile, so we must assume that it is the same for individualist

 

[GC13]

from what i saw of quill18's gameplay, it isn't even possible to have slavery enabled if you have even one point in xenophile, so we must assume that it is the same for individualist

I find that unlikely: individualists have a penalty to slavery tolerance, while xenophiles no longer have such a penalty. It wouldn't be much of a penalty if individualists simply didn't allow slavery in the first place.

 

[moglus]

I find that unlikely: individualists have a penalty to slavery tolerance, while xenophiles no longer have such a penalty. It wouldn't be much of a penalty if individualists simply didn't allow slavery in the first place.

I would argue that it makes perfect sense that if the ethos of your government, and of the vast majority of your society, thinks of slavery as a big no no, then it wouldn't be the enforced policy in your empire unless you actively change it.

 

[Denkt]

Collectvism also limit what goverments you can choose while xenophobe don't effect what goverment you can choose.

 

[GC13]

I would argue that it makes perfect sense that if the ethos of your government, and of the vast majority of your society, thinks of slavery as a big no no, then it wouldn't be the enforced policy in your empire unless you actively change it.

Yeah, but you can still change it. You said xenophiles were locked out of alien slavery altogether, but individualists can't be locked out of slavery altogether.

 

[moglus]

Yeah, but you can still change it. You said xenophile's were locked out of alien slavery altogether, but individualists can't be locked out of slavery altogether.

I haven't seen any evidence that supports that they aren't. then again not all the policies are available at start so maybe you need to unlock it later with tech? or when the ethos of your POPs diverge from yours it may show up as an option? (so you could enable it to appease the opposition, but you suffer a penalty for it)