Xenophobe looking for friends

[WLFobe]

I've not played a Xenophobe before and thought I would give it a try. I am Spiritualist/Militarist/Xenophobe running a Theocratic Republic.

My question concerns liberating vs. conquering. To wit: If I liberate someone (intent to vassalized) they get the same ethos I have - Xenophobic. Won't this mean that they hate me? Despite liberating them?

Would I be better off just conquering them?

 

[Brickfix]

You get a small bonus for liberating them. So they like you a bit more. Than you have to heavily bribe them with minerals, strategic ressources and so on and than you might have a chance they accept vassalization.

 

[The Founder]

You would be better of just conquering them, but that will produce more threat and thus might generate more hostile alliances.

I actually did a Fanatic Xenophobe/Pacifist run a while back. I had some problems after liberation:
- Liberator gives +100 (not a problem)
- Two Xenophobia Bonuses would apply (quite a problem with Fanatics).
- Then there will propably be a penalty from Border conflict too - both of you have extra border range after all. So asuming you bordered, you will have issues.* Only vassalage and Federations can overcome that penalty and getting there is hard.
- And then you have to consider wich AI Personality the Liberated State will likely get. Evangelist Zealots and Hegemonic Imperialsits seem the only ones possible, with Evangelist Zealot having the better weight (HI is a fallback after all). However both AI Personalities can get along.


*Liberating on the far side of the Empire or creating "buffer vassals" might be feasible. Borders will be open for 5 or 10 years after war victory.

 

[terrycloth]

I've not played a Xenophobe before and thought I would give it a try. I am Spiritualist/Militarist/Xenophobe running a Theocratic Republic.

My question concerns liberating vs. conquering. To wit: If I liberate someone (intent to vassalized) they get the same ethos I have - Xenophobic. Won't this mean that they hate me? Despite liberating them?

Would I be better off just conquering them?

Yes.

The last time I tried this with a xenophobic empire I ended up creating a bunch of fanatical purgers. But even if it's not *that* bad it's still probably worse than whatever they started as.

 

[The Founder]

On another note, I am just doing a "wierd AI type" run.
Fanatic Individualists/Xenophobe default to Hegemonic Imperialist. But I am playing them as more of alliance builders. Monument of Purity is a really good Happiness building. It synergizes very well with the FI bonus and is less restrictive then Pacifist Ethos. And I will add 3-5 Star Governors on top of that for another +10%.

However I was lucky enough to find the UNS to ally with (they actually formed the "Sol Pact"). So I can use them to "liberate against", wich results in Xenophile/FI new empires.

 

[Jerev]

It sounds to me that liberation wars as a xenophobe could be an effective tool against a big rival empire.
You carve out a big part of their territory which will now hate them because of their new xenophobe ethic. On top of that you wouldn't get much threat out of a liberation war. After ten or more years you could use your opinion buff on them to fight together in a conquest war against your rival. (divide et impera)
Am I missing something or could this work?

 

[The Founder]

It sounds to me that liberation wars as a xenophobe could be an effective tool against a big rival empire.
You carve out a big part of their territory which will now hate them because of their new xenophobe ethic.

Xenophobia and -philia have explicit exceptions if you are the same species or a subspecies.
i.e., there will be neither between UNS and CoM Humans.

The border pressure from Xenophobia would still apply, however.

 

[Jerev]

Xenophobia and -philia have explicit exceptions if you are the same species or a subspecies.
i.e., there will be neither between UNS and CoM Humans.

The border pressure from Xenophobia would still apply, however.

You're right of course. Wiz said that xenophobes won't hate species with the same name and portrait that much. But still your liberator bonus could hold long enough to help you get into some treaties with them and use them as an ally against their brethren.

 

[Repeats]

Just finished playing a Fanatic Xenophobe + Militarist play through (ie Fanatic Purifiers). Xenophobes can't do Liberate + Vassalize, but balkanizing enemies up into 3-4 planet sections with no hopes of making alliances is actually better. Once you split them up, that small section will never want to make alliances of any kind. So you just wait it out 10 years and conquer them individually (they will be very weak).

If you want to play a cleansing war, you will have to liberate or cede an empires capital. There is no option to cleansing it, which I find kind of dumb. I always ended up taking the planet, followed by an immediate cleanse and eventual terraforming into the main planet type. If it is a planet your main species can colonize, purge everything but 1 pop, waiting to build a robot in a newly opened block (assuming the planet was full already ; else just build a robot asap). Wait until the robot has ~15 months from being built, then purge the remaining xeno scum from the planet (purging also takes 30 months). With resettlement or migration, the planet will soon be yours. No building a colony ship (30+ influence) and you get to keep all the buildings left behind without having to rebuild them.

 

[WLFobe]

So I just tried this. I went out and attacked my neighbor. Liberated three worlds. They became Evangelizing Zealots and set up a Democratic Utopia. I offered a Non-Aggression Pact (accepted) and the next month I demanded vassalization. He accepted. So I did it again. This time the E. Zealots set up a Plutocratic Oligarchy. But they also accepted vassalization.

So what gives. I'm playing the game on normal difficulty. Would playing on hard change this?

 

[The Founder]

You're right of course. Wiz said that xenophobes won't hate species with the same name and portrait that much. But still your liberator bonus could hold long enough to help you get into some treaties with them and use them as an ally against their brethren.

That was in part what I tried to do with my Pacifist/Fan Xenophobobe build. Turn them into Tributaries. Then hand the planets of thier Brethren,

So I just tried this. I went out and attacked my neighbor. Liberated three worlds. They became Evangelizing Zealots and set up a Democratic Utopia. I offered a Non-Aggression Pact (accepted) and the next month I demanded vassalization. He accepted. So I did it again. This time the E. Zealots set up a Plutocratic Oligarchy. But they also accepted vassalization.

So what gives. I'm playing the game on normal difficulty. Would playing on hard change this?

You are only playing Normal Xenophobes.
After the liberation they are weak: They have no Fleet, no stored resources, only a small handfull of planets and propably no spaceports.
Of the two possible AI personalities, E. Zealots have less border Friction and generally more amiciable Diplomacy to thier Liberator (Idealogue penalty).

As you are playing a E. Zealot yourself (kind of), the Logic is that you installed a puppet government following your religion and that one would of course be willing/forced to become your vassal.
THere should be a 1/3 chance of them becomming Hegemonic Imperialists instead, wich would apply a different set of modifiers.

 

[TwiceAHuman]

The title sounds like Blorg anime...

 

[BrokenSky]

It sounds to me that liberation wars as a xenophobe could be an effective tool against a big rival empire.
You carve out a big part of their territory which will now hate them because of their new xenophobe ethic. On top of that you wouldn't get much threat out of a liberation war. After ten or more years you could use your opinion buff on them to fight together in a conquest war against your rival. (divide et impera)
Am I missing something or could this work?

Won't they have the same original species?

 

[The Founder]

Won't they have the same original species?

I already pointed that msitake out. Same species means no Xeno-effect, in positive or negative.
But they could still hate each other, as much as CoM and UNS do. Or the two Stellar Starfish empires from the 1.5 Stream.

Liberating a empire resets stuff like threat and Purge Penalties. Even if they end up with the same Ethics and species as before, they would be more amiciable towards you then thier original people.

The idea of making a "buffer empire" that you conquer or integrate down the line is a typically roman approach to conquest.