Yeah, I'm wondering if indoctrination is going to be a more morally acceptable version of infiltration for xenophiles. I guess we'll find out tomorrow!
Xenophiles are the Worst at Integrating Species
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That sounds pretty good, but i still think they should have some sort of way to do it directly through the observation station.
Additionally i still maintain that xenophiles should get a bonus to alien migration attraction. It makes a lot of sense, certainly more than the trust growth bonus they get now.
Well, that's good, but now I'm just stuck waiting for Banks and Utopia.
I think that, according to one of the teaser images, the ability to impose or indoctrinate ethics is accessed directly through the observation station. There will be a new icon on the station menu. We should know more about this tomorrow. I do not think xenophiles ought to recieve an inherent bonus to migration attraction... but there will be other methods to achieve this (such as the tourism building from one of the tradition trees) which will also *probably* further increase xenophile attraction within an empire. I edited my earlier post, but I read from one of the information compilation threads that xenophiles *may* be the only ones who can access full alien citizenship, at least at game start. Coupled with their openness to refugees, xenophiles should not have any difficulty building up a cosmopolitan empire.
Very exciting stuff, indeed!
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That sounds great. Indoctrination is indeed done through the observation station. But from what i understand, indoctrination only gives gives the primitives your ethics. Which still leaves you to enlighten and thus still has the same inherent problem. But i guess we'll find out tomorrow in any case
I've never had a problem forming a federation, there's always some fellow pacifists/xenophiles to be found but maybe the rng can screw you over here. Together with "liberation" wars it's not hard to find new friends.
I even managed to vassalize a protectorate last game but it does still take a very long time, not sure how practical it is. Maybe if the protectorate was a bit more useful on its own. Take my space toasters you stone age numbskulls!
I even managed to vassalize a protectorate last game but it does still take a very long time, not sure how practical it is. Maybe if the protectorate was a bit more useful on its own. Take my space toasters you stone age numbskulls!
This has always bothered me! It feels so weird that Xenophiles not only lack any kind of unique interactions with aliens/pre-FTL civs, but actually they get unique LIMITATIONS instead.
Everyone ELSE can enlighten primitives (but they choose not to because infiltration/invasion is so much more useful to them) it's not a feature of xenophilia.
For all the restrictions to be worthwhile, Xenophiles need to either have something exclusive to them, or they should get infinitely better benefits compared to everyone else out of the few mechanics they do have access to
If forexamplish protectorates and vassals under Xenophiles received additional buffs to things like construction time, building costs, fleet maintenance, colonisation expenses and such, maybe they wouldn't be as hopeless. And maybe it would even make letting them keep autonomy a viable alternative to auto-integrating the moment they become vassals (if they ever do)
Xenophilia, the way it's implemented now, does nothing to incentivise me to protect and cultivate alien life. Quite the opposite - it makes me despise pre-FTL civs and wish I could just subjugate them without all the hassle. For their own good. The random splotches of garish colour in the middle of my empire is dead space that doesn't do anybody any good and clashes with the rest of my territory.
Everyone ELSE can enlighten primitives (but they choose not to because infiltration/invasion is so much more useful to them) it's not a feature of xenophilia.
For all the restrictions to be worthwhile, Xenophiles need to either have something exclusive to them, or they should get infinitely better benefits compared to everyone else out of the few mechanics they do have access to
If forexamplish protectorates and vassals under Xenophiles received additional buffs to things like construction time, building costs, fleet maintenance, colonisation expenses and such, maybe they wouldn't be as hopeless. And maybe it would even make letting them keep autonomy a viable alternative to auto-integrating the moment they become vassals (if they ever do)
Xenophilia, the way it's implemented now, does nothing to incentivise me to protect and cultivate alien life. Quite the opposite - it makes me despise pre-FTL civs and wish I could just subjugate them without all the hassle. For their own good. The random splotches of garish colour in the middle of my empire is dead space that doesn't do anybody any good and clashes with the rest of my territory.
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My main problem is that federations are sorta... pointless? The whole rotating presidency is more than enough for me to not want do it. I wish it was some sort of voting or something. In addition to that the only real advantage to federations are the federation fleet, which you only get to play with once every 10 years with a ever increasing period of time as the federation expands. A fleet really shouldn't be the incentive to create or join an intergalactic federation of states imo.
That's kind of the problem with the whole game (and sort of what Banks and Utopia try to address). The game favors war, slaves, purging, and whatnot. That if you want to play even moderately warlike and more toward a British style imperial hegemony are jumping through hoops.
Being evil: AWESOME!
Being good: Unrewarding Hoop Jumping, the Video Game.
The tooltip just says that regular Xenophiles can always make aliens full citizens, and fanatics must. That means there's something restricting giving an alien species citizenship, but also implies that it's not always in play.
Xenophiles invite aliens to live with you by migration. Obviously they got a shitty border control because they literally just allow anybody from any country that signed migration treaty with you in. Should've built a space wall.
And also, a species claim to be xenophile and then continue to infiltrate weaker alien civilization, compromise their integrity is kinda like a country who claim to love democracy, freedom for peace yet brought endless sorrow to lesser powers for its own selfish gain. I don't know, perhaps the said empire could also get a galactic peace prize for its contribution to the greater good of the universe.
My last playthru was a xenophile & fan spiritualism on normal, I enlightened several pre-FTLs but non of them turn into a vassal, all the other AIs besides Fallens are pathetic/inferior compare to me in tech. I liberated & maintained protectorate 1/4 of the map, yet I only ever had 2 empires turn into vassal until I decide this run was not fun anymore. I should try a harder difficulty next time.
I also generally do not have problem of getting aliens to live with me, I have all species can be leader policy and have open migration treaty with several independent AIs, vassals and protectorates. Everytime I made a new colony it quickly fills itself with all sort of migrants.
And also, a species claim to be xenophile and then continue to infiltrate weaker alien civilization, compromise their integrity is kinda like a country who claim to love democracy, freedom for peace yet brought endless sorrow to lesser powers for its own selfish gain. I don't know, perhaps the said empire could also get a galactic peace prize for its contribution to the greater good of the universe.
My last playthru was a xenophile & fan spiritualism on normal, I enlightened several pre-FTLs but non of them turn into a vassal, all the other AIs besides Fallens are pathetic/inferior compare to me in tech. I liberated & maintained protectorate 1/4 of the map, yet I only ever had 2 empires turn into vassal until I decide this run was not fun anymore. I should try a harder difficulty next time.
I also generally do not have problem of getting aliens to live with me, I have all species can be leader policy and have open migration treaty with several independent AIs, vassals and protectorates. Everytime I made a new colony it quickly fills itself with all sort of migrants.
I know it's completely RNG, but i rarely met other empires that are even willing to entertain the idea of giving me a migration treaty.
Both of you need to have habitable planet for the other species. Player can get a gaia world rather quickly, but AI not so much, so they might decline because your species can not settle in their system.
You also need a good relationship, that's not too difficult to achieve, since you usually only want immigration from similar ethos empires anyway.
AI also can not be collectivism/xenophobe, which seems to be everywhere in galaxy today. Xeno these days! Gasp!
Being charismatic also helps.
Xenophile's with Domination Traditions ("Gotta Catch Em All!" Empires) could be crazy fun and quite powerful.
Liberate a microstate, vassalise; then repeat until there are small clusters of patchworked vassal-states giving you all the extra bonuses that Domination grants and each with migration treaties to supercharge your own colonisation efforts. One can integrate a few in order to keep expanding the 'wave front' of vassalisation.
For enlightened civs make sure they have been well hugged by your empire first. The fact that protectorates can expand on their own (normally by placing extremely inconvenient Outposts) is something that I hope changes soon!
Liberate a microstate, vassalise; then repeat until there are small clusters of patchworked vassal-states giving you all the extra bonuses that Domination grants and each with migration treaties to supercharge your own colonisation efforts. One can integrate a few in order to keep expanding the 'wave front' of vassalisation.
For enlightened civs make sure they have been well hugged by your empire first. The fact that protectorates can expand on their own (normally by placing extremely inconvenient Outposts) is something that I hope changes soon!
Noooo! That's literally their only redeeming feature. and most of the time they don't even take advantage of it and spend the entire game sitting in their home system. It makes their already long and painful upgrade to vassal take forever unless you sacrifice a few of your own planets. If they're not expanding, the Xenophiles who enlightened them are never going to get returns on their investment.
Just an aside but you might be seriously romanticising the British Empire if you think they're Xenophile... :/
It is possible (hopefully!) that slaves and unhappy POPs or factions are going to be more of a bother in Banks so the benefits of friendliness and equal integration might manifest as fewer problems rather than more power?
Vassal -> Protectorate is based on tech... you want them to stay small with enough labs that they don't get too high tech costs. If they expand their tech rate slows as they fill up their immature worlds with obsolete garbage infrastructure.
I believe he was saying that the British were merely moderately warlike and seeking imperial hegemony rather than the ridiculous hyper-aggression and Enslave/Purge Them All that Stellaris encourages.
I don't mind it so much for primatives on the edge of my empire. When they're right in the middle though, yeah, I'd rather just skip the step where they become their own empire and integrate them directly. It's good to hear that protectorates will be able to integrate now, that will at least speed up the process.
That said, I don't mind that xenophiles have to go through a slower, more peaceful integration process in principle. If anything, the issue is that the harsher methods don't create more problems for the empire after integration. Hopefully unrest and the new ethics system will change this for the better.
That said, I don't mind that xenophiles have to go through a slower, more peaceful integration process in principle. If anything, the issue is that the harsher methods don't create more problems for the empire after integration. Hopefully unrest and the new ethics system will change this for the better.