We'll have to wait and see what the release build and day-one patch look like, but if there are missing or incorrect heads of state/government then we can report them in the bug forum.
WWW Poland - no Soviet invasion with "historical" 1939 start setting?
- Thread starter tom_jones
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What I think most of the people troubled by this omission would like is for Paradox to solve this by allowing the USSR to attack Poland without war necessarily breaking out with the allies. I think most of us know that this is a minor issue compared to others, but it would be great to get it right for once instead of having the same fudge as in all other HOI games going back to 2003.
This is particularly the case considering that Poland is the subject of a DLC.
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Well, if you insist on Soviet invasion to be in game, then operation Catapult should be in game as well. Direct betrayal of its main ally at the time by UK.
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Pretty sure this was France betraying the UK, rather than the other way around. Operation Catapult was a direct consequence of France and Germany signing an armistice. Vichy France was hardly going to uphold their pre-war bargains and if they turned their fleet over to the Axis, it could have disastrous consequences for the UK war effort.
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France was done, the country surrendered as did Italy, Romania, Hungary, etc. when the country was invaded and beaten.
It'd make certain sense for it to be included (as well as option for Germany to attempt to seize these ships, given they did try it eventually as part of operation Anton). Both would be fairly easy to implement as optional decisions/events for the player, I imagine.
France agreed to start shooting at UK? It had a way to continue fighting with chances for success? Paris surrendered as soon as Germans started shooting?
It's a strange mind-set where being realistic about the USSR (the Soviet Union attacking Poland in co-operation with their Nazi allies) means that some kind of debt is created that has to be paid off by being more realistic about the Western Allies (the UK destroying the French fleet to prevent it falling into Nazi hands).
Personally I want both to be modelled in-game if possible so long as it can be done without messing up the rest of the game.
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Was about to start my own thread about this when I found this one. I'd like to point out that it is not a very hard thing to do and I really hope paradox puts it in as it feels ridiculous not having it. It allows Poland to move all it's divisions over with no threat to the eastern border. This in turn will make Poland too strong and will end up needing a nerf in IC which it might have already gotten which is what happend to France in HoI 3. Having the Soviets not invade Poland is like having France not be at war with Germany until Poland had surrendered, it could work since they didn't "really" fight during this time but then again it feels a bit ridiculous doesn't it?
As for a solution you'd only need to add a event that removes guarantees from Poland & takes them out of the allies then you have the USSR declare war on them and then you put them back in the allies. This is what the Black Ice mod for HoI 3 did and it worked just fine.
Doing this will not only add to gameplay value but also the alternate history that paradox is pushing for HoI 4. If the Germans and Soviets share a peace conference the borders in the east can be different depending on what the player wants. Perhaps you could even allow a German player to give up more of Poland in exchange for Lithuania which was the original plan before modifications. I'm really hoping we can get some clarification on if the Soviets invade or not it annoyed me a lot in HoI 3 that it didn't and I would hope that HoI 4 solves this.
As for a solution you'd only need to add a event that removes guarantees from Poland & takes them out of the allies then you have the USSR declare war on them and then you put them back in the allies. This is what the Black Ice mod for HoI 3 did and it worked just fine.
Doing this will not only add to gameplay value but also the alternate history that paradox is pushing for HoI 4. If the Germans and Soviets share a peace conference the borders in the east can be different depending on what the player wants. Perhaps you could even allow a German player to give up more of Poland in exchange for Lithuania which was the original plan before modifications. I'm really hoping we can get some clarification on if the Soviets invade or not it annoyed me a lot in HoI 3 that it didn't and I would hope that HoI 4 solves this.
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The game did not go historically. Historically Poland was overrun in a month. It was all done and dusted by mid-October. In the game, Daniel held his ground admirably, retreated incrementally with great timing, skill and coordination, ahistorically received direct aid from the Allies, and held off the end of Poland until January 1940. That alone took events out of the "historical scenario," which meant the USSR in turn was in it's rights to respond ahistorically and not get involved.
The "historical scenario" may have pre-requisite rails - but they are not unjumpable.The Ai still apparently adapts to the in-game events. The more the player does to change the historical timeline, surely the more likely it becomes that countries affected by those changes will themselves go ahistorical.
The "historical scenario" may have pre-requisite rails - but they are not unjumpable.The Ai still apparently adapts to the in-game events. The more the player does to change the historical timeline, surely the more likely it becomes that countries affected by those changes will themselves go ahistorical.
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Except that, you know, many Frenchmen and women didn't surrender. They fought on from the UK, or else in their own streets as Resistance. France really doesn't deserve it's rep for surrendering. Much of their fighting was far braver - with so much more at stake - than most of the fighting by many of the other allies. When the French resisted they did so in the knowledge that in reprisal their neighbours, their friends and/or their loved ones, could be tortured or shot. It was an awful call to make, yet so many did so to help free their country. I for one admire and respect every one.
This and Poland becomes unplayable if SOV also declares war.
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They were a very, very, very little minority in 1940. Things changed afterwards but there was no doubt in 1940 that the legitimate French government did surrender.
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Why not make an event for Ussr and Allies that after Poland is defeated, peace is signed between Soviet Union and Allies? It not like France or Uk have any chance of landing their troops in Ussr in 1939, same goes for Red Army, there is no way it can clash with Allies only with Poland.
I'd argue it's the other way around -- the game did not go historically in large part because of ahistorical lack of involvement from the USSR. The player would have much harder time 'holding his ground admirably' with large amount of enemies pouring in and taking over eastern parts of his country, either due to need to divide his forces to tackle both fronts, or simply because loss of eastern provinces and cities would hit hard his national unity/speed up the capitulation.