WWW - It's a Little Like Risk

[safe-keeper]

"The Fall of Berlin" by 1 US paratrooper division... the HoI classic still possible.
Why don't they simply add 1 division per nation placed in the respective capital and being locked indefinitely? Solves so many exploits.

Better yet, HOI4 allows for smaller units, so you can seize Berlin with a paratrooper company for extra troll points .

Edit: or they could have capitals and other strongpoints work akin to forts in EU4: even if there are no troops present, it takes time, and extra attrition, to seize it, and you will need a certain number of troops. This way you won't be able to take all of London by air-dropping a hundred men.
Worth its own thread, perhaps.

 

[safe-keeper]

Your last sentence made me chuckle. You probably meant to say "Not everything that is realistic can be modelled [in]." The way you put it, it sounds like nothing realistic can be in the game.

The worst thing is, at least here in Norway this somewhat weird phrasing is actually pretty common .

 

[LordOfWar16]

Movement costs organisation of the division. Other than that movement causes attrition to equipment aswell. Moving troops need to be supplied constantly and if out of supply they wont get very far. In WWW the supply situation seemed a bit off, for example at the last remains of the maginot line lasting for very long out of supply after being completly cut off with an massive army being locked in. That said it was an alpha built of course, so bugs, inperfections and balancing issues are present.

Better yet, HOI4 allows for smaller units, so you can seize Berlin with a paratrooper company for extra troll points .

Edit: or they could have capitals and other strongpoints work akin to forts in EU4: even if there are no troops present, it takes time, and extra attrition, to seize it, and you will need a certain number of troops. This way you won't be able to take all of London by air-dropping a hundred men.
Worth its own thread, perhaps.

If you keep your capital undefended it is your own fault. Capturing wont be the problem if there is nobody there to defend it, but holding it is something completly different of course. If no soilders are stationed in Berlin even 20 soilders could simply walk right into the Reichstag.

 

[Axe99]

There is 1.800 km from Berlin to Moscow. Traveling 4 km/hour 12 hours a day. that equals 37,5 days.The russians didnt put up much of a fight so why isnt that plausible? Daniel started in november at the polish/russian border and in 5 months advanced what in a straight line would take 2-3 months.
Maybe my numbers a wrong?

As No_Idea posted, that speed for a marching army is unprecedented over that period of time, but there's also the weather. For most of those five months, the troops would be marching through angle to waist-deep snow, and marching 4km/hr through waist deep snow in full kit and gear, in formation (ie, it's not just one fit person taking the best route, it's 15,000 men marching in line where they're told) is so far from what's possible it's not funny - and that's if there's no opposition at all. As I mentioned in my original post, I'm sure it'll be balanced or moddable, so from my angle I'm not worried, but the gap between plausibility and what happened in the WWW is so large that the Risk comparison in the subject line isn't really hyperbola.

Also just to add, it might be "fun" for an allied player to para drop a nuisance grab Berlin for 5 mins, it's hardly plausible for a Govt to send a suicide drop because there are consequences. The game does have some plausibility rules I think Democracy can't declare war on another Democracy, however as for suicide drops.

On the practical front there would be:

A) no volunteers for the explained suicide mission with no retrieval or success plan:

B) if it was done deviously with out explanation of proper support and retrieval plan - if Dominions troops were involved and slaughtered they would be outraged and leave the allies. The UK's own troops sent on a one way mission may well bring down the Govt.

How would you put this in a game?

While I agree on this, I think it has to be put down to 'letting players do dumb things if they want to'. Daniel was dumb to leave Berlin without a garrison, but even then, those paras didn't last long. In the scheme of things, it was a couple of wasted paras.

Movement costs organisation of the division. Other than that movement causes attrition to equipment aswell. Moving troops need to be supplied constantly and if out of supply they wont get very far. In WWW the supply situation seemed a bit off, for example at the last remains of the maginot line lasting for very long out of supply after being completly cut off with an massive army being locked in. That said it was an alpha built of course, so bugs, inperfections and balancing issues are present.

That part of the Maginot line holding out was on a victory point, and victory points generate their own supply, so it was never fully out of supply, and had to be worn down. I'm not unhappy with this in general, as if the French in the Maginot line had held on, then they would have needed to have been worn down as well, but the balancing will be tricky.

 

[LordOfWar16]

That part of the Maginot line holding out was on a victory point, and victory points generate their own supply, so it was never fully out of supply, and had to be worn down. I'm not unhappy with this in general, as if the French in the Maginot line had held on, then they would have needed to have been worn down as well, but the balancing will be tricky.

I know that, but it cant be that 4 divisions can stay there without starving to death and holding out for months. Overall, it is even an very mountain rich area, which should allow even less divisions to survive there.

The supply is literaly 1 in there. Victory points might generate 1 supply, but not enough for so such an large amount of troops to survive.

 

[seattle]

Better yet, HOI4 allows for smaller units, so you can seize Berlin with a paratrooper company for extra troll points .

Edit: or they could have capitals and other strongpoints work akin to forts in EU4: even if there are no troops present, it takes time, and extra attrition, to seize it, and you will need a certain number of troops. This way you won't be able to take all of London by air-dropping a hundred men.
Worth its own thread, perhaps.

Or do it like the latest Total War and Civilization games and have fixed garrison values for cities depending on their size.

 

[Axe99]

I know that, but it cant be that 4 divisions can stay there without starving to death and holding out for months. Overall, it is even an very mountain rich area, which should allow even less divisions to survive there.

The supply is literaly 1 in there. Victory points might generate 1 supply, but not enough for so such an large amount of troops to survive.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your concern, but I'd expect 1 'supply point' to still be able to partially supply four divisions indefinitely (presumably at around 25 per cent of their supply needs).

 

[Abadon777]

IMO Attack delays should have been keep in the game. There is no Army, Division or Platoon that could keep up a extended attack without rest or being resupplies, but this being a game everything is possible. My experience comes from being in the military there is just so much you can get from a occupied area. food, water and clothing . Bullets are made from factories geared up to make the kind of ammunition that you are carrying.

 

[Vidkjaer]

IMO Attack delays should have been keep in the game. There is no Army, Division or Platoon that could keep up a extended attack without rest or being resupplies, but this being a game everything is possible. My experience comes from being in the military there is just so much you can get from a occupied area. food, water and clothing . Bullets are made from factories geared up to make the kind of ammunition that you are carrying.

I guess attack delay is part of the Battleplan. The delay is the time your BP bonus ticks up.

 

[Jazumir]

Better yet, HOI4 allows for smaller units, so you can seize Berlin with a paratrooper company for extra troll points .

Edit: or they could have capitals and other strongpoints work akin to forts in EU4: even if there are no troops present, it takes time, and extra attrition, to seize it, and you will need a certain number of troops. This way you won't be able to take all of London by air-dropping a hundred men.
Worth its own thread, perhaps.

I´d like to point to my previous suggestion: If it would take, say, 1,000 men to garrison occupied London, which get attrited away from the first division occupying it, a hundred men would not be able to take it ; they would just poof out of existance while trying.

And from a realistic POV, 20 airdropped men could NOT conquer Berlin, even if their was not a single member of the Wehrmacht in it (which is more than just unlikely, units present or not): Those 20 men would be defeated by the local police force, if neccessary. And even if they darent attack those 20 men, those 20 men would be totally unable to control anything but one or two buildings, and as soon as they left those, they´d be retaken... If conquest was that easy, Paris would be ISIS territory by now.