WWII aircraft armament

[JakeTheDoge]

The Zero was extremely tough to engage as Allied fighters, particularly carrier-based planes, could not match it's range or speed. For the first few year of the war, U.S. pilots could do very little. The F4F Wildcat was extremely rugged, which ensured survivability, but pilots had to work hard to maintain an advantage over the Japanese. The F6F Hellcat, introduced Sept 1943, finally closed the gap, and the plane was responsible for the highest number of enemy kills among allied carrier aircraft. It finally had the power-to-weight to gain the high-altitude advantage, and engage Zero's at speeds that allowed it to disengage without threat of retaliation.

Even then pilots were warned to never turn fight an A6M Zero.

Over the course of the war, it became clear that "speed kills" (the enemy), which is why the war saw development of jet engines. Jet's allowed massive thrust, giving massive speed, and therefore the ability to reach high-altitude quicker.

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

As a simple illustration, the spitfire was superior to the Me-109

No it was not, it can outurn a ME 109.Same with the US and the Zero, German pilots quickly learned not to dogfight a Spitfire. The ME109 had other advantages like dive and climbing ability not to mention slightly better speed and armament.
I rate the Spitfire (slightly)behind a ME109 in an energy fighter role. It was a decent interceptor tho.Next to speed climbing ability is most important. Height = energy = speed/options in aircombat.
The Spitfire could only follow a ME 109 while diving if it rolls which is a severe orientation problem.

It was a plane that got way to much credit by propaganda anyway. The British workhorse in the Bob was the Hurricane while the Spitfire got all the glory.

 

[Kovax]

It doesn't matter how maneuverable an aircraft is if your opponent can outrun and/or outclimb you. The speed/climb advantage allows you to engage if/when you have an advantage, and break contact if you don't. Against the light, fast A6M Zero, many of the heavier early war Allied fighters were only able to disengage by diving, which you can only do for so long before the ground becomes a bigger problem, and many other planes couldn't even manage that. The F6F Hellcat and later Corsair had sufficient power to match or exceed the Zero in level flight.

Eventually, two-plane tactics were developed to combat the more fragile Zero (one plane covers the other's "six"), and the Allied kill:loss numbers improved considerably.

As for the Bf-109 vs Spitfire pissing contest, the answer is situational, largely depending on altitude, because the engines had very different performance ratings at high versus low altitude.

 

[Dina1954]

No it was not, it can outurn a ME 109.Same with the US and the Zero, German pilots quickly learned not to dogfight a Spitfire. The ME109 had other advantages like dive and climbing ability not to mention slightly better speed and armament.
I rate the Spitfire (slightly)behind a ME109 in an energy fighter role. It was a decent interceptor tho.Next to speed climbing ability is most important. Height = energy = speed/options in aircombat.
The Spitfire could only follow a ME 109 while diving if it rolls which is a severe orientation problem.

It was a plane that got way to much credit by propaganda anyway. The British workhorse in the Bob was the Hurricane while the Spitfire got all the glory.

Agree with you UNTIL Spitfire IX begun to arrive.

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

Agree with you UNTIL Spitfire IX begun to arrive.

Yeah true.

 

[Henry IX]

No it was not, it can outurn a ME 109.Same with the US and the Zero, German pilots quickly learned not to dogfight a Spitfire. The ME109 had other advantages like dive and climbing ability not to mention slightly better speed and armament.
I rate the Spitfire (slightly)behind a ME109 in an energy fighter role. It was a decent interceptor tho.Next to speed climbing ability is most important. Height = energy = speed/options in aircombat.
The Spitfire could only follow a ME 109 while diving if it rolls which is a severe orientation problem.

It was a plane that got way to much credit by propaganda anyway. The British workhorse in the Bob was the Hurricane while the Spitfire got all the glory.

True. My comment was too simplistic.

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

True. My comment was too simplistic.

 

[Acheron]

True. My comment was too simplistic.

This could have been a wonderful flame war, you know?

 

[Henry IX]

This could have been a wonderful flame war, you know?

Fine, the spitfire is the greatest combat aircraft ever built and was clearly superior to the feeble and inadequate Me-109. Superior British engineering driven by the plucky can-do attitude of the indomitable little island was the critical feature of the defeat of Hitler. The superiority of the spitfire can be clearly seen in its creative and inspiring British naming whereas the Me-109 is simply a numerical designation, appropriate only for the identi-kit Nazis with their absolute lack of individuality.

Better?

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

Fine, the spitfire is the greatest combat aircraft ever built and was clearly superior to the feeble and inadequate Me-109. Superior British engineering driven by the plucky can-do attitude of the indomitable little island was the critical feature of the defeat of Hitler. The superiority of the spitfire can be clearly seen in its creative and inspiring British naming whereas the Me-109 is simply a numerical designation, appropriate only for the identi-kit Nazis with their absolute lack of individuality.

Better?

Achtung !!!! This is Verrückt.

Ze Me 109 was the best aircraft of ww2. It had two canons and was shooting Spitfires out of the sky in dozens. If not for Hitlers order of bombing civilian targets the Luftwaffe would have easily won the battle of Britain.

 

[Henry IX]

Ze Me 109 was the best aircraft of ww2. It had two canons and was shooting Spitfires out of the sky in dozens.

This is correct. The Luftwaffe shot down dozens of Spitfires in the whole Battle of Britain. But it lost hundreds of Me-109s in the process. HA!

Your inability to respond to my devastating and insightful 'better name' argument shows you are just trolling me!!

Clearly you know nothing about anything!!!

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

This is correct. The Luftwaffe shot down dozens of Spitfires in the whole Battle of Britain. But it lost hundreds of Me-109s in the process. HA!

Clearly you know nothing about anything!

Bismark > Hood

 

[Henry IX]

Bismark > Hood

Swordfish > Bismark

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

Trolol r0flc0p3r

 

[Acheron]

Better?

Much better, thanks! The two of you could have a good comedy routine, just saying.

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

Bismark > Hood

Hood was the more modern ship incorporating all the lessons of WW1 (albeit in somewhat ad-hoc manner) while Bismarck was just a copy of Baden.

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

Hood was the more modern ship incorporating all the lessons of WW1 (albeit in somewhat ad-hoc manner) while Bismarck was just a copy of Baden.

This is the most intelectual flamebait/trolling atempt I have ever seen

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

This is the most intelectual flamebait/trolling atempt I have ever seen

It is? I thought the "Bismarck was just copy of Baden" is fairly generic derision of the design.

 

[bz249]

It is? I thought the "Bismarck was just copy of Baden" is fairly generic derision of the design.

And what a sloppy copy it was, neither the sizes nor their ratios are matching, so Bismarck* is not even a mockup of Baden.

*btw: you cannot be more rude to Chancellor Bismarck than saying he's a typical Southern German... probably by claiming that he is Austrian

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

And what a sloppy copy it was, neither the sizes nor their ratios are matching, so Bismarck* is not even a mockup of Baden.

Normally I'd be so inclined as to consider this potential evidence to the contrary. However, you have to remember that the German peoples have never been one for exact measurements. Just look at how they tried to make a copy of the T-34 with the Panther.