WWCCII

[EUROO7]

I was able to snatch my laptop from my bag.

Name Role Trait
Yahmik Seer
Daffius Priest
Chieron Guardian
Audren Doctor 3rd SA
Skobelev Hunter
Napster Sorcerer BC
Wagon Cultist Witness
Aziz Cultist SA Witness
Cody Cultist Witness

Rovsea Werewolf Hunt Crave
Tornadoli Werewolf
Spockyt Werewolf

Yakman Werewolf
Aedan Werewolf Brutal 4th
Capt. Kiwi Werewolf Brutal - 7th

Madchemist V-->Priest C - Hunt Crave
Gorgan Villager Witness
Capibara Villager Sorcery
Ironhide Villager
Kaisersoho Villager
Ithvan Villager
Cliges Villager
Canadian Villager
Wombat V->Seer Leader
Lemeard Villager
Livingstone Villager
Jackson Villager B - 2nd
AVN Villager

C=cultist
B=Blessed

 

[Jacksonian Missionary]

Interesting. I kinda like the whole traits come from the BOBs instead of regular assignments, but simply the structure of the BOB was flawed in that it helped clear people stupidly easy and that made them way too overpowered. The real gripe I have is how easily villagers can become apprentices, because that can lead to a long line of seers with no end in sight really.

 

[EUROO7]

Interesting. I kinda like the whole traits come from the BOBs instead of regular assignments, but simply the structure of the BOB was flawed in that it helped clear people stupidly easy and that made them way too overpowered. The real gripe I have is how easily villagers can become apprentices, because that can lead to a long line of seers with no end in sight really.

Jackson has captured the main deficiencies in Bands. I saw the same problems from my perspective. Again, more to say later tonight.

 

[npstr]

@Audren: When was the protectors union established? Did anyone fishing contact you?

@Tornadoli, @Yakman: Any fishing people contacting you after the outing?

Short of me obviously (I wasn't fishing in any of the cases anyway)

 

[Yakman]

i got outed early so i figured i would go all out.

helped my pack out a bit, but i guess it wasn't enough.

 

[al-Aziz]

Thank you for GMing, EURO.

What did Ironhide do that was so awful?

I like the concept, but I do believe that the BoB unions were massively overpowered in the village's favor. Too many ways to protect key players, and the whole thing where at least one villager was needed meant that major goodies could game the system to clear people. And we shamelessly did so. I might have altered it to requiring at least one goodie role; that would have made things way more risky and would have given a lot less info to the JL.

Aye. I also exploited it to figure out the villagers.

For this one, I just used the wolfpack from the last game, since I figured the chances they would all be baddies again would be rather small. Al-Aziz pointed out the flaw in this

Namely, that it doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

It gave us npstr and Irinhide, which with so many outed players with roles left us spoilt for choice with hunts and brutal. We just didn't get many chances to use them.

 

[madchemist]

Aye. I also exploited it to figure out the villagers.

Which, while undeniably useful, isn't nearly as powerful as being able to identify every single baddie in the game by, say, forcing all the players to form a union with Audren and myself and lynching the ones who couldn't or who refused. Which we were more than capable of doing had I been so inclined.


If this idea gets used again (and I would not in the least mind seeing it reappear), there should probably be some cap on the number of BoBs, and I would definitely remove the requirement that the BoB contain at least one villager. Like I said before, at least one goodie (of any time) would completely remove 95+% of the potential for abuse, and would also require the good guys to be much more circumspect about who they formed unions with (because baddie takeover would become much more viable).

Also, fewer protecting traits would probably have made things a bit more reasonable.


Agreed with Jackson as well about the making of apprentices being a bit too easy.

 

[aedan777]

Slight correction to the role list, I was SA as well.

Overall I agree with the BoBs being rather open to abuse due to the villager requirement. Apprenticeships were also far too easy, and played a role in my pack not even bothering to hunt MC despite knowing he was priest because we didn't think the few potential targets left would even be protected if he died. Cultists needing to be hunted to attach is also a somewhat questionable mechanic. It requires the baddies to sacrifice a hunt to establish a connection, which does give them more powers, but the JL and the like don't need to make similar sacrifices for their own unions.

 

[Audren]

@Audren: When was the protectors union established? Did anyone fishing contact you?

@Tornadoli, @Yakman: Any fishing people contacting you after the outing?

Short of me obviously (I wasn't fishing in any of the cases anyway)

Chieron contacted me first, you later. I actually trusted you over Chieron, since he had also been in contact with Madchemist (I see you were just being quite active). I sent the unions with both of you, but i didn't say anything else to Chieron, whereas we had a bit of communication. Needless to say, I was rather disappointed that Chieron was the actual GA. So even without all of Ironhide's nonsense, I still woulda outed you.

And I did fall for Tornadoli's fake GA outing, hence my freak out and self outing.

 

[madchemist]

Oh, and one other complaint, this time from the village side. The hunter role was terrible. Just about zero chance of doing anything useful.

 

[npstr]

Apprenticeships were also far too easy, and played a role in my pack not even bothering to hunt MC despite knowing he was priest because we didn't think the few potential targets left would even be protected if he died.

That was misjudged imo as he didn't have an apprentice at that point yet. And you sentenced the Sorc to certain death, as I had been very clear in the PM to Yakman about the situation between me, my apprentice, and MC. I don't see how attaching a second cultist to the pack would give more benefits.

 

[aedan777]

That was misjudged imo as he didn't have an apprentice at that point yet. And you sentenced the Sorc to certain death, as I had been very clear in the PM to Yakman about the situation between me, my apprentice, and MC. I don't see how attaching a second cultist to the pack would give more benefits.

Yakman never passed on MC's identity. So our decision that it wasn't worth hunting MC was made by the point you and Wagonlitz were known and Cody was a wolf.

Edit: He did on second check, but very close to deadline, and without the context that made hunting MC a priority.

 

[al-Aziz]

Like I said before, at least one goodie (of any time) would completely remove 95+% of the potential for abuse, and would also require the good guys to be much more circumspect about who they formed unions with (because baddie takeover would become much more viable).

The problem I see with the one-goodie idea is that the baddies could use it to get into touch with each other more quickly. Though the limit on the number of BoBs allowed could restrict this usage.

 

[madchemist]

The problem I see with the one-goodie idea is that the baddies could use it to get into touch with each other more quickly. Though the limit on the number of BoBs allowed could restrict this usage.

Baddies getting in touch is a double-edged sword. It's not exactly a positive thing for a wolf to be known by a player or group of players who wants to kill them eventually.

I suppose an unattached cultist or sorc might be able to abuse things, but again, I expect people would be a bit more cautious about forming unions if the rules were modified as I suggest, especially if the powers up for grabs would be useful in baddie hands.

 

[npstr]

Yakman never passed on MC's identity. So our decision that it wasn't worth hunting MC was made by the point you and Wagonlitz were known and Cody was a wolf.

Edit: He did on second check, but very close to deadline, and without the context that made hunting MC a priority.

It's true, I didn't drop MCs name until later, because I don't write initial PMs with names stuffed in them, but I made the situation very clear. He never bothered asking.

~5h before deadline:

I'm the sorc, hook me up already. Torn promised I would be contacted, but I haven't been. At this point I have found the new priest and I know he has no apprentice yet, so it's very important we set that hunt right. It could also safe my ass as he almost certainly knows who I am, or will be scanning me tonight.

I have also found several players (a five man Bob where I was in failed) that are not villagers. If I get access to the information of pack members we can hunt the goodies there.

Also you should out everyone again as hunte, skobelev might have been in a vigilante gang with a villager, and since he didn't use his shot, the rules say that villager would be promoted to hunter

i'll pass your info onto my pack. we've already gotten a cultist in line.

Let that cultist contact me with the phrase "tetas en la mesa"

Yakman also managed to alter my passphrase in a way if anyone contacted me out of the blue I'd probably be mistrusting him cause I had used the phrase before in English. Knew I could trust Wagon without the passphrase since I scanned him cultist.

~2h before deadline:

scan wagonlitz. we think he's the seer.

~1.5h

Set my scan order.

He is not one of those two names that I have of non-villagers.

I am getting impatient, as I haven't been contacted. If I tell youthe priests name will you be able to kill him tonight? (hunt or maybe you guys have a hunter crave?) Or do I need to find the other pack to do so? I have been left totally in the dark from the baddies and I am pissed about that. My cover inside the goodies will be blown after the deadline, unless we hunt the priest and if possible shoot Audren (if he really is the Doc). I do have an apprentice for the case of my death, but he too is in a delicate position and will have his cover blown if the priest doesnt die today.

~1h

we have another cultist targeted for the hunt tonight. i have informed my pack about who you are and what information you might have.

~0.5h

Not cool posting that quote.

Madchemist (who is the guy you should hunt tonight) will know it's me who knows that hes the priest. Gj dumbass. wp if you're a goodie.

 

[Cliges]

I found the set-up bold and commendable despite some minor imperfections.

EURO is the spirit of WW.

 

[Jacksonian Missionary]

I found the set-up bold and commendable despite some minor imperfections.

EURO is the spirit of WW.

I tend to agree but I would say that the imperfections had major impact on the game. They certainly weren't minor.

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

It's true, I didn't drop MCs name until later, because I don't write initial PMs with names stuffed in them, but I made the situation very clear. He never bothered asking.

~5h before deadline:






Yakman also managed to alter my passphrase in a way if anyone contacted me out of the blue I'd probably be mistrusting him cause I had used the phrase before in English. Knew I could trust Wagon without the passphrase since I scanned him cultist.

~2h before deadline:

~1.5h

~1h

~0.5h

It's quite simple. We didn't trust you and so stalled by asking you to scan a cultist already attached to us. By the time we next got a hunt, the priest was completely irrelevant to the game.

 

[npstr]

It's quite simple. We didn't trust you and so stalled by asking you to scan a cultist already attached to us. By the time we next got a hunt, the priest was completely irrelevant to the game.

Well people will have to learn to trust me unless they have hard evidence against me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯