WWCCII

[Team Wombat]

Ok, so why did Wombat send me that PM?

And why did he not trust me after that?

That was a mistake - I noticed all the members in that group had names beginning with C, and just reflexively picked you. But everyone knew I was JL spokesman by that point anyways, so if you were a wolf, me sending that PM would have given the baddies advance notice that one of your members would die.

 

[Tornadoli]

If Tornadoli hadn't blown three baddies that would have helped too, of course, and npstr trying to form a union with no less than four other roled players was bizarre and unfortunate.

Golly, I told yakman I'm a wolf of the alpha pack. I knew you guys knew our packname, so he knew I must be telling the truth. Why didn't you contact me or anything? I knew yakman was either an important goodie or a wolf, your pack's lack of contact made me suspicious that yakman was an important goodie.

 

[npstr]

If Tornadoli hadn't blown three baddies that would have helped too, of course, and npstr trying to form a union with no less than four other roled players was bizarre and unfortunate.

I thought people would find it odd if I didn't start a lot of unions after my boastful announcement to do so (before I knew my role). I might act more reserved in the future :>

I had plans to abuse IGs villagerness to create baddie BoBs, but that never happened


Also, did anyone actually answered my Call To Apprentice by writing Euro a PM?

 

[madchemist]

Well, this will be awkward (I guess you guys know each other in real life?).

I've said far nastier things to him and to his brother IRL. They don't openly hate me yet.

 

[Capibara]

I agree with the fact that BoB were heavily in favor of the village and need rework. But I did like the concept.

And if Chieron hadn't surrendered, the tide might had turned.

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

Golly, I told yakman I'm a wolf of the alpha pack. I knew you guys knew our packname, so he knew I must be telling the truth. Why didn't you contact me or anything? I knew yakman was either an important goodie or a wolf, your pack's lack of contact made me suspicious that yakman was an important goodie.

We couldn't work out what you were playing at outing yourself so quickly. Our only real actions were to set our hunts and brutals on you, because the sooner we killed your pack the better.

Yakman would have been better off claiming sorcerer to you in private perhaps. We never thought you'd out yourself to everyone though.

 

[aedan777]

Golly, I told yakman I'm a wolf of the alpha pack. I knew you guys knew our packname, so he knew I must be telling the truth. Why didn't you contact me or anything? I knew yakman was either an important goodie or a wolf, your pack's lack of contact made me suspicious that yakman was an important goodie.

At that point we had doubts about interpack cooperation. Revealing ourselves would've just put us at risk. Plus we didn't really have much time to think about it before you blasted it across the thread and got three baddies, including yourself, killed.

 

[npstr]

Feedback to the new rules:

Overall I liked it.
It's hard to talk about the balance, as all the baddies really really fucked this up. The BoB of three that panicked, apprentices and turned players giving up, me playing like I'm expendable. It could have been a balanced game if we played to our capacities.

 

[Canadian_95_RTS]

Just as a side note, Bands of Brothers that I either made, or attempted to make, over the course of this game:

The noob union:
Canadian
Npstr
Yahmik
Spocky

Powers: 1x Witness, 1x Hunt Crave

On thinking back, everyone on this thing was a baddie except for me. Might have allowed me to catch spockyt sooner. Npstr made it, I guess trying to band together noobs. Didn't really work. Anyway, this died before we could use either of the presented powers.

The CIA union
Canadian
Ithvan
Cliges
Al-Aziz

Powers: 3x Guardianship

For this one, I just used the wolfpack from the last game, since I figured the chances they would all be baddies again would be rather small. Al-Aziz pointed out the flaw in this, but we BoB'd anyway. We didn't really have a use for the Guardianships, though, and the union died when Al-Aziz did. I tried to restart it, but it just didn't end up happening. Unfortunate, since everybody in it at that point was a goodie.

Vitamin C Union
Canadian
Capibara
Cheiron
Comm Cody
Daffius (Proposed)

Powers: 3x Hunt Crave (One successful use on Cpt Kiwi, one failed use on Aedan)

This union was made when I was really starting to get into my "make as many unions as possible" phase, with me picking (mostly) random people with names near each other on the player roster. It could also be said to have been the most successful BoB in the game, killing one baddie and pinpointing another in Cody. It originally was supposed to have Daffius on it, but he got killed before the group formally formed. DeathByWombat gave the group its nickname, which was mostly adopted by us, and it sparked most of the group getting adopted into the JL by the end.

Inactives Union (Proposed)
Canadian
Cpt Kiwi
Ironhide
Kaisersohaib
Yakman

Again, during my "make unions" phase, I figured I'd group together people who were mostly inactive, hoping they would start a diologue. This didn't happen, per se, and the idea died hard when Yakman did.

[Insert Name Here] Union (Proposed)
Canadian
Audren
DeathByWombat
Rovsea
Gorganslayer

Another union for the sake of having unions. This one was loosely organized by my knowledge of these people being good at the game, but not really attached to the MC clan (though I don't really know the membership of this clan, so I wasn't 100% sure) I also figured this chat would garner a good dialogue, but no one was interested in pursuing the union further.

The Villager Check Union
Canadian
Madchemist
Audren

Powers: None (presumably blessed or cursed)

This union was made late in the game, as a shootoff of most of Vitamin C being absorbed into the JL. That being said, the JL didn't completely trust me, so I was put in a union with two important goodies to check my status. Needless to say, it went off without a hitch.

New JL Union (Proposed)
Canadian
Madchemist
DeathbyWombat
(Audren)
Capibara
Cheiron

This was supposed to be the culmination of the villager check done earlier. However, by the end there was little reason to do it, so it never came to fruition.

 

[happycats517]

Well, this will be awkward (I guess you guys know each other in real life?).

They're cousins, IIRC. Don't quote me on this but I think Jackson is his brother and DBW is MC's, though it might be the other way around. I'm sure Wagon knows.

Personally my biggest issue with these rules (and the reason I decided not to play) was how the hunter was handled. It's pretty unfair to say, "Hey I made this broken role and if you get it and anyone says you're it then I'm gonna kill you". I don't see any reason for a hunter to survive a hunt on them and kill the wolf. I knew the hunter was pretty much gonna die if any baddie got run up early. I also just don't like the idea of balancing the game by using the GM to punish players.

 

[Team Wombat]

Feedback to the new rules:

Overall I liked it.
It's hard to talk about the balance, as all the baddies really really fucked this up. The BoB of three that panicked, apprentices and turned players giving up, me playing like I'm expendable. It could have been a balanced game if we played to our capacities.

Largely agreed with that - unionizing was definitely an interesting mechanic. With a little more clarity/some tweaks, this could be a really awesome change of pace type game. Thanks for GMing, EURO.

Anyway, last game for a while, I'm afraid (barring any really late deadlines). At least I went out on a high note.

 

[aedan777]

Feedback to the new rules:

Overall I liked it.
It's hard to talk about the balance, as all the baddies really really fucked this up. The BoB of three that panicked, apprentices and turned players giving up, me playing like I'm expendable. It could have been a balanced game if we played to our capacities.

I don't know if I'd say all baddies were at fault. At the risk of sounding biased, I'd say wolf pack Charlie, at least the starting group + Wagonlitz, played without any serious errors. All three three wolves and Wagonlitz were killed because they were scanned or otherwise outed beyond our control. After Cody implicated himself by pretending he was absent when asked to vote to shoot me, I tried to give him deniability by saying he was my packmate, and told him in private how to respond in response. Instead he ignore me and just put some insignificant posts. Probably wouldn't have helped much with how the JL was set-up, but more of a fight was possible.

But the baddies in general did have a serious problem with players screwing over their own side through stupidity and misplaced assumptions. Tornadoli dragging his union issues out in the open was stupid. If there were important goodies in the group, his pack could just hunt them. Dragging it in the open just makes certain that he's a target. He needed to claim an important goodie role to not be lynched, which means at least one player knows he needs to die, and the other pack will want to hunt him. Even if he wanted to out them, doing so by naming them hunters was retarded, since that'll only kill goodies. Yakman and Al-Aziz were put in a poor position, and both were also baddies. They'd get scanned and outed eventually, even if they claimed important goodie roles and were believed.

Ironhide's actions have been discussed, and I join the voices calling for him to be banned.

Chieron's refusal to play his role was also supremely aggravating. He was upset because he changed sides, and blamed it on BoBs, but there was nothing in the rules this game saying important goodies couldn't be cursed. Having one's (baseless) expectations changed and then breaking your role in a hissyfit is not how Werewolf should be played. Complaining that BoBs give traits that don't uniformly benefit the village is a part of why this game ended up so lopsided.

 

[Jacksonian Missionary]

Chieron's refusal to play his role was also supremely aggravating. He was upset because he changed sides, and blamed it on BoBs, but there was nothing in the rules this game saying important goodies couldn't be cursed. Having one's (baseless) expectations changed and then breaking your role in a hissyfit is not how Werewolf should be played. Complaining that BoBs give traits that don't uniformly benefit the village is a part of why this game ended up so lopsided.

I have to agree with this. You have to play with the cards you are dealt. Sometimes you will switch sides when you do not wish to do so. Trying to surrender unnecessarily and actively harming your side goes against the spirit of the game more so than what Ironhide did.

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

If I was inactive it was because I was doomed from the moment Tornadoli killed all hunters, if not earlier. Seriously. A five person union failing because everyone had roles? Even allowing for the sorc starting it when he should have left that to an apprentice, it's still freaky. There was no way out of that with so many goodie roles already claimed and hunter off the table. Chieron was just lucky we at first decided getting Comm Cody was a better deal (lol), and second time around he was protected (a protected GA shouldn't be happening, but working to get the perfect cursed player would have been ok...).

Ok, so why did Wombat send me that PM?

And why did he not trust me after that?

Aziz being a wolf really soured me on joining more bands.

Why didn't I get lynched?

And how did Kiwi wind up at a drunken prayer meeting?

"God loves sex" Christians are an interesting lot. And these ones were also the type to reminisce about the pre-market liberalism days while quoting poetry, and taking meeting minutes on the back of a receipt for a company they'd just slagged off. It was a great night out, although it was a shame that the Tory voting humanitarian classicist I know wasn't there to add to the excitement as she couldn't make it.

 

[Canadian_95_RTS]

If I was inactive it was because I was doomed from the moment Tornadoli killed all hunters, if not earlier. Seriously. A five person union failing because everyone had roles? Even allowing for the sorc starting it when he should have left that to an apprentice, it's still freaky. There was no way out of that with so many goodie roles already claimed and hunter off the table. Chieron was just lucky we at first decided getting Comm Cody was a better deal (lol), and second time around he was protected (a protected GA shouldn't be happening, but working to get the perfect cursed player would have been ok...).



"God loves sex" Christians are an interesting lot. And these ones were also the type to reminisce about the pre-market liberalism days while quoting poetry, and taking meeting minutes on the back of a receipt for a company they'd just slagged off. It was a great night out, although it was a shame that the Tory voting humanitarian classicist I know wasn't there to add to the excitement as she couldn't make it.

Yeah, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you were inactive, only that you looked that way from what was shown in this game. Same goes for Yak, but I had to flesh out the union somehow.

 

[npstr]

I don't know if I'd say all baddies were at fault.

True, I made an overly general generalization there. There certainly were different shades of fail on the baddie side.


Two more things about the game mode:
I understand it's a very demanding one for the GM, and despite having said my thanks in the role PM, I would like to emphasize that I really appreciated the effort Euro put in here for us. This was not your average GM workload.

The nature of the rules basically makes dead villager subs impossible.

These two things should be kept in mind whenever we are giving this another go.

 

[EUROO7]

I do want to say that Eurostructure would be infinitely better served by a Co-GMship.

 

[Jacksonian Missionary]

Could we see a starting set up? I'm curious.

 

[Team Wombat]

So what was everyone's remaining role/starting role? I started as leader, became seer and leader.

 

[Canadian_95_RTS]

I was plain, vanilla villager, though if plans had gone my way, I would have had a bunch of possible traits from unions.