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"ell I'm not saying I know exactly how to implement it, but it could be niceif the two or three major alliances in most/many/some (?) cases clashed towards the end of the grand campaign?"

Yes! That would be a nice climactic showdown in the game. If I play the grand campaign and it doesn´t end up with a big bang I will surely get dissapointed.
WW1 is the natural grand finale of the grand campaign!
 

Generalisimo

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Originally posted by christianx
"ell I'm not saying I know exactly how to implement it, but it could be niceif the two or three major alliances in most/many/some (?) cases clashed towards the end of the grand campaign?"

Yes! That would be a nice climactic showdown in the game. If I play the grand campaign and it doesn´t end up with a big bang I will surely get dissapointed.
WW1 is the natural grand finale of the grand campaign!
very dificult to obtain that, you will surelly have annexed some of the participant countries by that time.... ;)
 

Tim O

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Once one major European power annexes an other, the other powers should gang up on them like they did to Napoleonic France. So if a human player as France manages to annex all of Germany, then Britain, Russian, Austria-Hungary should all declare war on France.
 
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Originally posted by UberYuber
I assume it will be very difficult for the AI to unify Germany and Italy, especially if the Human plays a European country. As a result, historical WWI is very unlikely to occur.

I'm not so sure about that...For example in the AoN player made mod for Eu2, Germany and Italy form with decent regularity(assuming no major player influence)... If amateur event makers can do it, I'm confident so can the good people at Paradox :)
 

unmerged(14393)

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Originally posted by Timothy Ortiz
Once one major European power annexes an other, the other powers should gang up on them like they did to Napoleonic France. So if a human player as France manages to annex all of Germany, then Britain, Russian, Austria-Hungary should all declare war on France.

yes I think so too. Paradox have learnt a lot during the last few years. The most important lesson they have (I hope) learned is that the player wants to be challenged by the AI.
So if they don´t use a system like you are suggesting the game would become way too easy. Therefore they will implement it.

And it´s not like it´s unhistorical. The Victorian era was all about keeping the balance of power...and when ever things got a little more Yíng than Yang the generals jumped straight into the bed of his enemy´s enemy.
 

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Originally posted by Generalisimo
very dificult to obtain that, you will surelly have annexed some of the participant countries by that time.... ;)
Well if the player has annexed a lot, then he's just one side in the conflict!
As I've said in another thread - hopefully there will be a good "bad boy factor" to hold agressive players / AI nations down with counter alliances.
So if you run around annexing your neighbours you have the reason for WWI right there! :D
 

Generalisimo

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Originally posted by Killerjes
Well if the player has annexed a lot, then he's just one side in the conflict!
As I've said in another thread - hopefully there will be a good "bad boy factor" to hold agressive players / AI nations down with counter alliances.
So if you run around annexing your neighbours you have the reason for WWI right there! :D
of course all the others countries must try to stop you, but, maybe you invaded France in 1870 as Spain, you have a WW1? i don't think so...
that's what i said, you will probably (like in EU2) will have a lot of WW, but none like WW1 if you play the grand campaign...
 

unmerged(2695)

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There is the problem of making minors playable.

But otherwise I think that a BB-point system can be used to make the world a powderkeg around 1910.

Basically it can be events driven: Germany gets the option to build Tirpitz' navy and incur BB-points or not build and incur prestige and stability losses.

The point is basically that the player accumulates BB-opints and prestige through the same actions. The model can be International politiocs as a zero-sum game. Which was how it was conceived at the time.
 

Killerjes

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Originally posted by Generalisimo
of course all the others countries must try to stop you, but, maybe you invaded France in 1870 as Spain, you have a WW1? i don't think so...
that's what i said, you will probably (like in EU2) will have a lot of WW, but none like WW1 if you play the grand campaign...
I don't have a problem with "WWI" happening earlier, so in principle we agree.

Generalisimo: do you know how the "bad boy factor" works, could it be used to build up tension between two or three factions, and eventually lead to a Great War?

And - yes I realise that that might as well be 1875 as 1914, depending on player and AI actions.
 

Generalisimo

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Originally posted by Killerjes
I don't have a problem with "WWI" happening earlier, so in principle we agree.

Generalisimo: do you know how the "bad boy factor" works, could it be used to build up tension between two or three factions, and eventually lead to a Great War?

And - yes I realise that that might as well be 1875 as 1914, depending on player and AI actions.
i don't remember exactly how it works, because i haven't played EU2 recently, but the problem with the factions is that in 1835 you could have some factions, in 1910 you will have anothers, so why make the game so static? like in HoI where you have ONLY 3 factions the player can choose...
Also, the bad boy factor will almost surelly bring all the world against you (like in EU2)... once i was USA and i ended fighting against the entire world, because i united the USA in a couple of years (annexed all the indian states all togheter :D, that send my BB to the skies ).
There was a BB guide in the FAQ question if iam not mistaken... i will try to find it in the EU2 forum...
 

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Well, I don't think a campaign game should more or less lead to WW1 around 1914.
Too many things can happen. This can lead to many far reaching possibilities. For exemple there can just be a general gang up against Prussia in 1870 leading to a general European War. Unlikely? Well the Danes were eager to go and Austria might well have come into the fray too had France won a few early victories........

Now the confederates could have won the civil war, and the French kept Mexico. There could have British and French Recognition of the confederacy and intervention into the war, not necessarily on the same side either. how about the Russians who still held territory in America.......

The British could have accepted the Russians offer to shorten the sick man of Europe's agony instead of fighting the Crimean War......

The world balance of Power could be totally modified and a world conflict may or may not occur whenever for whatever reason....

Thus for a real WWI there should be a specific scenario like for the Napoleonic Wars in EU, otherwise a conflict may degenerate into a world war quite unexpectedly according to the decisions of the countries.
 

Generalisimo

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Originally posted by supergamelin
Well, I don't think a campaign game should more or less lead to WW1 around 1914.
Too many things can happen. This can lead to many far reaching possibilities. For exemple there can just be a general gang up against Prussia in 1870 leading to a general European War. Unlikely? Well the Danes were eager to go and Austria might well have come into the fray too had France won a few early victories........

Now the confederates could have won the civil war, and the French kept Mexico. There could have British and French Recognition of the confederacy and intervention into the war, not necessarily on the same side either. how about the Russians who still held territory in America.......

The British could have accepted the Russians offer to shorten the sick man of Europe's agony instead of fighting the Crimean War......

The world balance of Power could be totally modified and a world conflict may or may not occur whenever for whatever reason....

Thus for a real WWI there should be a specific scenario like for the Napoleonic Wars in EU, otherwise a conflict may degenerate into a world war quite unexpectedly according to the decisions of the countries.
that's what i have always said from the beggining. :D
 

Killerjes

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Originally posted by Generalisimo
that's what i have always said from the beggining. :D
So we might actually agree more than we think? :p

I don't want static factions as in HoI, what I DO want is a tool, mechanisme, BB, WE, World Tension, call it whatever, that makes it more likely that we often see a WWI-like scenario happen, preferably towards the end of the Grand Campaign - but that's subject to players and AI going berserk early :rolleyes:

Maybe some event-like thingy - a CB arises the player or AI gets the option go to war?
And if not then tension is build up instead.
That could lead to fewer small wars, but ONE Great War more often...

Yeah I know, go play with myself - I mean, play the scenario :p
 

Vynd

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If this game is to reflect the period in question with any accuracy then its diplomatic model is the key. It should not be possible for one nation to just go to war with another country willy-nilly. If a crisis arises, nations should have to try and negotiate a settlement, or conceivably even have a settlement negotiated and imposed upon them by the Great Powers. Only if negotiations fail should war even be a possibility.

The EU system will surely result in the sort of situations that Generalissimo has described, and that's just totally wrong for the time period. The HoI system of War Entry is closer, but will need to be refined considerably if the game is really going to have a Victorian era feel to it. Crisis meters for each and every country might be necessary, like the way EU tracks relations between every country.

To get back to this thread's topic: if Paradox implements a robust and restrictive enough diplomacy system like what I've been talking about, then a World War I style battle should be a distinct possibility, even starting from 1835. Under a system like this, Great Power war presumably wouldn't be possible unless tensions are high. Yet even early on, having allies will still be important because it will give you more clout in negotiating and cut-down on the number of nations that you have to worry about crises with. If war starts to loom on the horizon and it seems like you've picked the wrong allies, tough luck. Because severing your alliance at that point would destroy your all-important reputation.
 

Killerjes

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Originally posted by Vynd
If this game is to reflect the period in question with any accuracy then its diplomatic model is the key. It should not be possible for one nation to just go to war with another country willy-nilly. If a crisis arises, nations should have to try and negotiate a settlement, or conceivably even have a settlement negotiated and imposed upon them by the Great Powers. Only if negotiations fail should war even be a possibility.
Yup - wonder if it's possible to have a two-stage CB ?
Were level 1 would be a threat of war, with some kind of demands / negotiations.
And level 2 is a "true" CB (WE or "tension level" high).
 
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It could be variable...linked to relations, if they're made fluid enough.

Like if the relations between two countries drops below zero, it's possible to declare war, but as relations fall towards -200, you're less likely to incur civil penalties.