WW1 and the diplomatic meltdown - how is this simulated?

[unmerged(14393)]

WW1 and the diplomatic meltdown - how is this simulated?

Most of you seem very much interested in history...so I assume your all aware of the diplomatic breakdown...the twists and turns that somehow lead to the bloodiest conflict the world had ever seen.
I surely hope the diplomatic model will allow for a peaceful negotiation.
And I wonder which condititions must be met for war to break out. I mean it can´t just pop up an event saying "Prince Ferdinand has been shot" which leads to a new event declaring that "Austria has decided to crush the nationalistic uprising in Serbia", then "War is all over the continent".

These any of course many more diplomatic issues that preceded the great war is the most intruiging thing for me about the whole game. Ican´t wait to see how they solve it!

 

[unmerged(5367)]

but i guess the next question is how to prevent them from reaching a peace 2 weeks later... while at the same time keeping every other conflict from turning into a endless bloodbath..?

 

[Lord Prime]

Perhaps if the austrian player/AI chooses not to demand access to Serbia in connection to the murder of Franz Ferdinand there would be no WW1 or atleast not an historical one.

 

[unmerged(14393)]

However...even if there hadn´t been so many misunderstandings and "accidents" in the diplomatic process...there would problably have been a showdown between many of the majors sooner or later anyway. Britain and France were getting really nervous about the German naval build up...to mention just one unfortunate thing that pointed in the direction of armageddon of the old world, so to speak.

 

[unmerged(10945)]

Originally posted by The camel
but i guess the next question is how to prevent them from reaching a peace 2 weeks later... while at the same time keeping every other conflict from turning into a endless bloodbath..?

Personally, I think any conflict should have the chance to become a 'world war'...but only if the world situation is ripe for it. The reason why many of the smaller wars didn't break into a WW1esque hell is because it was in everyone's best interest to maintain the status quo. Sure, the balance of power shifted in small steps but overall the same system was in place the entire time.

The only thing that brought ww1 beyond this was because the balance of power finally shifted in a way that the Germans felt they could finally fully tip it in their favor.

 

[Arkestra]

Using the HOI model of international relations, we can perhaps expect world wars to break out thusly;

<1st August 1910> Siam entered an alliance with United Kingdom, France, Russia, Uruguay, Andorra and Lichtenstein
<2nd August 1910> San Marino entered an alliance with Lesotho, Greece, Austria-Hungary, Germany, Argentina, Solomon Islands, Saudi Arabia and Abbysinia
<20th August 1910> San Marino declared war on Siam

 

[AndrewT]

Maybe they take the Pax Brittanica option; when WWI breaks out the game is over and victory is evaluated.

 

[unmerged(4486)]

Originally posted by AndrewT
Maybe they take the Pax Brittanica option; when WWI breaks out the game is over and victory is evaluated.

How does the game determine "what WWI is"? What if a war like WWI breaks out in 1901? What if Britain doesn't participate? Is it still WW1? etc.

 

[unmerged(5664)]

Originally posted by christianx
WW1 and the diplomatic meltdown - how is this simulated?

The game has barely begun being designed yet - it isn't simulated at all right now. The better question is "how might it be simulated".

 

[magicpiper97]

I'm not one of those who believes that EU and her cousins should be strictly tied to history, but I think I'd be a bit disappointed if I finished a game of Vic with no WWI - kinda like playing EU2 as France and having Napoleon die after only a few weeks. I'd feel the same about the formation of Germany and Italy as well. Considering that the game seems to be based less around warfare (which is what primarily led to such extra-historical outcomes in EU and EU2), I'd certainly expect it to be much more faithful to reality, but to what extent do you think history in Victoria will be tied to real history?
This might be one of the huge questions surrounding the game as it develops...

 

[unmerged(10945)]

Originally posted by magicpiper97
I'm not one of those who believes that EU and her cousins should be strictly tied to history....I'd certainly expect it to be much more faithful to reality, but to what extent do you think history in Victoria will be tied to real history?
This might be one of the huge questions surrounding the game as it develops...

EU2 = 400 year time span
Victoria = 85 year time span

I think this is important to point out, because with the shorter time frame they can be much more in-depth with that specific time period, and guide things on the right path(without using deterministic events to hold history by its damn hand )

I agree though, I'm a person that likes to see interesting things happen every game. That being said, I still want the game to have a good historic feel as you play it.

 

[Tamas]

If the game is good enough, there's no need for WWI event Why? I'll try to explain.

Before actual fighting took place in 1914, all the leaders thought that WWI will be a war similar to previous ones, except the only difference of having much more units. So, they did not start it like "let's start the new era of warfare, and do years of bloody, useless attacks against each other until one of us will run out of manpower".

From the diplomacy view, "world wars" can erupt in EU2 as well. I guess you have seen great powers going into war with each other when their minor allies start to fight each other.

The transition from the French-Prussian War in 1870 to the machine-gun ruled war of WWI was not sudden. Therefore , what the game needs to can bring us the Great War is a good working diplomacy system, and the AI's ability to realize, in which alliance can it further its aims, plus a land technology which will give huge advantages to the defender when "modern" machine guns and trench systems are researched.

 

[stnylan]

I think not having an automatic ww1 is a good thing - but that a ww1 war should usually occur in the last 2 decades of game-time.

The diplomatic size of ww1 wasn't that exceptional after all - it can be seen as just another in that succession of European General Wars that have been fought every so often.

(While the size in terms of armies etc. was due - but that really only due to the population explosion of the 19thC)

 

[unmerged(10945)]

Originally posted by stnylan
The diplomatic size of ww1 wasn't that exceptional after all - it can be seen as just another in that succession of European General Wars that have been fought every so often.

Exactly, and this is an important point. A good bit of diplomacy in this era was handled through bluster and empty posturing. While this is a viable tactic and should be put into the game for diplomacy, it only works for so long until the other side says "Put up or shut up."

 

[Damocles]

I expect you'll see the diplomacy of WW1 in Multiplayer.

 

[Sorcerer]

And, after all, if you really want WWI to happen, you can always start it yourself .

 

[unmerged(14393)]

Re: Re: WW1 and the diplomatic meltdown - how is this simulated?

Originally posted by BarristerBoy
The game has barely begun being designed yet - it isn't simulated at all right now. The better question is "how might it be simulated".

Well...that was what I meant...

 

[unmerged(16099)]

Will WWI be avoidable . . . . ?

Hello everyone,


Given the fairly wide date range that Victoria is going to be focusing on, I wonder if WWI is going to be an avoidable event.


For example, lets say that in the game that I am playing the political situation in Europe becomes very ahistorical by the early 20th century. Let's assume that two major players, like Germany and France, have been annexed by a human player. In this circumstance, would you like to see:



- WWI occurs as usual with the remaining historical countries taking their respective sides in the conflict.


-WWI might not occur at all.


- The game moves toward a world war in the 20th century, but it may not be what we know historically as WWI. Basically, the game would move toward a large scale world conflict using "in game" major players.





Now all my experience is with HoI, so I do not know if EU2 has already established a precedence for how to handle the above situation.




EnPeaSea

 

[unmerged(502)]

if EU2 is any indication, by the time 1914 comes there will be no one left but you to fight in WW1.

 

[unmerged(15967)]

If EU2 MP is an indication there will be several world wars, some with similar constellations to the real one