WW CCXLVII - DOOM OF THE WEREYAK 8: HASTINAPUR, 722 BC

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Culann

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I keep confusing my orders. Talking about days and night in the middle of the day is hard to keep track of.
 

Dedonus

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I keep confusing my orders. Talking about days and night in the middle of the day is hard to keep track of.
We also had a pretty good idea that Chieron was the last wolf anyway.
 

Yakman

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Chieron

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So, yes, I was mad, and still think I have some reason to be, especially since I asked for the sorc's name multiple times with no result. The game was practically unwinnable for the goodies, and your actions essentially gave the goodies a shot.

Sorry about that. Though as said, secrecy and an opportunistic hunt were the only chance my pack could win. It's not enough that the village loses. You would not have sided with the weaker pack..
 

Ironhide G1

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tenor-1.gif


Thanks for hosting, Yakman!

There were a lot of baddies. Holy cow. Good game though.
 
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CaptainGrimlock

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Out of curiosity, what was the full setup?
 
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CaptainGrimlock

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Oh, and I should clear up what happened with the Avernite vote. I voted him day 1, having scanned him (after being swapped from aedan) night 0. Then, with no coordination between me, wagon and Arky, the 2 of them followed me onto Avernite.
 

alxeu

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Oh, and I should clear up what happened with the Avernite vote. I voted him day 1, having scanned him (after being swapped from aedan) night 0. Then, with no coordination between me, wagon and Arky, the 2 of them followed me onto Avernite.

@aedan777 Called it. :p

It'd have to be someone who is active enough and willing to debate a bit with Wagonlitz regarding planning. Since this clearly implies discussion between Wagon and a cultist, as you said, then Wombat is, indeed, the best probable fit for this discussion here.

By the way, that line about "We wagered that it's extremely unlikely to know the seer on day 1". Do you think that implicates Grimlock as the other cultist? Or is that merely referring to the already known Wagon/Arkasas run-up? If nothing else, it's another strike against Grimlock.

Found another reason to distrust Dedonus, now, as well, from the first Sleepy PM in Wagon's PM wall:

"We got some clairvoyance scans, likely as compensation."

That's multiple, right there. Not just one.

I'm fairly certain we're looking at at least the following as baddies:

Wombat
Wagon
Dedonus
Grimlock


Harder to puzzle out the remaining cultist of Sleepy's pack, though. There's no clues to their identity in the PMs (why would there be, which is perhaps a clue that it's Culann, the one person completely unmentioned in the PMs?)

This was sent before Dedonus was cleared, but, overall, the baddies were sussed out even before their switch to Dedonus.

Makes me also wish I had continue discussions with Wagonlitz. Volunteering information that Dedonus was cleared might have backfired, but it would've at least guaranteed Wagon had not been on him. Just more wishful thinking looking back on how to save the game, I suppose.
 

Team Wombat

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Sorry about that. Though as said, secrecy and an opportunistic hunt were the only chance my pack could win. It's not enough that the village loses. You would not have sided with the weaker pack..
I'm not sure why people thought I would automatically side with the pack with more members on day 3 with a lot of the game to play. Wagon was definitely drawing attention day after day, and Panzer was a fairly obvious wolf to me. I would have gone along with a wagon or Panzer lynch - heck, I did support an arky lynch on day 2 and voted up cultist Grimlock on day 3 (before we pulled a rabbit out of our hats to save him).

Oh well, I'm glad the baddies at least won at the end of the day.
 
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Team Wombat

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Re Alxeu's point about the changeling:

I think changeling is an awesome role - probably the best part of Yakman's game, to be honest, and I may steal the idea for future games I GM. For the early game, with the amount of scans, I would "protect" scan magnets like aedan/avernite/sleepy by choosing to redirect them onto people who aren't generally scan targets or are newer players (say, a grimlock or an Ironhide).

For the late game, changeling becomes a redirect spell - essentially, a better doctor. You can actually target potential wolves by protecting cleared or nearly cleared you think the wolves are likely to hunt (Witch Agatha, aedan, etc.) and redirecting them onto suspicious but generally hard to lynch people (myself, chieron).
 
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Arkasas

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I'm not sure why people thought I would automatically side with the pack with more members on day 3 with a lot of the game to play.
Well, you see, it's because our pack was prettier than theirs, and they know it. How could they possibly hope to win your heart? Killing us, that's how.
 
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CaptainGrimlock

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Well, you see, it's because our pack was prettier than theirs, and they know it. How could they possibly hope to win your heart? Killing us, that's how.
It’s like how cats will put a dead rat on your bed.
 

Team Wombat

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I actually have a question for @aedan777 , @Dedonus , and some of the others goodies. Was I a major suspect without wagon's PMs? Aside from concocting Captain Grimlock's consumptive claim, I thought I played pretty badly from an undetectability standpoint.
 

MAWofdoom

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Well, you see, it's because our pack was prettier than theirs, and they know it. How could they possibly hope to win your heart? Killing us, that's how.
I don't know, I personally think our horns were far shinier than your hooves. Shiny things are always better and horns are usually prized more than hooves anyway. Then again I never saw the hooves of your pack until as a ghost, but even then I doubt they would have looked any prettier had I been alive. And as to killing, you were the first to move by desecrating my beautiful horns so that's on you.
 
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Arkasas

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I don't know, I personally think our horns were far shinier than your hooves. Shiny things are always better and horns are usually prized more than hooves anyway. Then again I never saw the hooves of your pack until as a ghost, but even then I doubt they would have looked any prettier had I been alive. And as to killing, you were the first to move by desecrating my beautiful horns so that's on you.
Well, there's no accounting for taste. There is, however, blaming Panzer for all your problems; something which I wholeheartedly recommend you do. He was sober when he sent that order, you see.
 
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aedan777

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Re Alxeu's point about the changeling:

I think changeling is an awesome role - probably the best part of Yakman's game, to be honest, and I may steal the idea for future games I GM. For the early game, with the amount of scans, I would "protect" scan magnets like aedan/avernite/sleepy by choosing to redirect them onto people who aren't generally scan targets or are newer players (say, a grimlock or an Ironhide).

For the late game, changeling becomes a redirect spell - essentially, a better doctor. You can actually target potential wolves by protecting cleared or nearly cleared you think the wolves are likely to hunt (Witch Agatha, aedan, etc.) and redirecting them onto suspicious but generally hard to lynch people (myself, chieron).
Changeling's been used before, and it definitely has potential. I had it once myself and tried to do much what you say in regards to switching hunt targets. I think I might have almost caused a wolf to hunt themselves before they switch their hunt target. Yakman's main change is that it can only be used to target a player once per game. Since alxeu used it on me early in the game, it meant he couldn't do it again, and since he told wagonlitz that, it meant Wagon knew he had a free hunt on me.

I actually have a question for @aedan777 , @Dedonus , and some of the others goodies. Was I a major suspect without wagon's PMs? Aside from concocting Captain Grimlock's consumptive claim, I thought I played pretty badly from an undetectability standpoint.
That's difficult for me to say. Prior to Wagon coming out and spilling the beans I figured you were likely a villager. You voted Graymarch day 1, so I was pretty certain you weren't with the Horns. You didn't have anything to rule out for the other pack, but I figured they were out of wolves so I never made a real effort to determine who fit with Arkasas and Panzer prior to Wagonlitz's outing.

After that, and once I believed him, just about everyone other than Agatha became a suspect in my book. I didn't single you out as a major candidate though until I went back over the PMs Wagon posted. Prior to that the main candidate I discussed directing the village to lynch was Grimlock, but that was purely on behavior.
 

Sleepyhead

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Yeah, I find the whole Baddie alliance this game to be pretty baffling. You guys had big numbers and the seer died night 1. There was no real impetuous for a baddie alliance and no serious threat to organize against.
The issue was the unaligned baddies. They started in contact with a pack and 3 of them had 2 super scans each, after one day cultists attached to both packs had discovered the other.
Ok, I can't let this pass. A couple notes:

I was a cultist and could win with either pack. My giving up your name to the other pack was as a result of you threatening them (I kept your name from them for a day out of respect for you after they knew I had scanned you, so technically I lied to them, saying that "my scan result wasn't interesting" or something like that). I wanted to keep all the baddies alive as long as possible for a better chance of winning, so I essentially forced a mutually assured destruction pact in by setting up the Stockholm. Besides which, they had three wolves to your 2, so technically, they were the leading pack at that point. Sleepyhead's relevant conversation is in yellow, mine in green.


We have scan confirmation on Wagonlitz (clairvoyance) and Arkasas (cultist Graymarch) as traitless wereyaks, you guys royally screwed up voting as a pack on Avernite. I launched the offensive to score goodie points, you and definitely the Capn should try to get some as well.

Sigh...

Arky is actually brutal (cultist scans don't reveal traits, [NOTE: I was incorrect on this point, but Yakman didn't reveal sleepy's traits in my original scan - I went back later and asked him for clarification] which is why I am still suspicious of J. passerpout having a clairvoyance scan and knowing me), but your basic points are correct. I don't control packs (MAW would never have been my first hunt in a million years, and the avernite voting was imbecilic), and I was hoping to avoid interpack warfare this early, but so be it.

I'd appreciate knowing the rest of your pack, if possible (who the sorc is, etc) so I can steer the hunts of my pack to have a better change of targeting goodies. Re: goodie points - I think nuking Graymarch buys me some time if I haven't been scanned yet, and I'm damn near impossible to kill anyway without a scan.

Also, reminder that Grimlock has an unused scan.


Yes Yakman just corrected his scan result on that account and cultist scans does reveal traits ("special role and any traits"), it's right there in the rules.

I won't spill any beans. You could well be that final wereyak of the hooves we have yet to identify, with the whole not knowing the cultist ruleset thing.

If you guys hunt me then be prepared for outing and hunt on Wagonlitz/Arkasas. If you're indeed a cultist that'd be very bad news for you. So that's one name to cross of the hunt.


You got three names from me already and you have scan result, focus on that for the hunt.

Sigh,,,

I'm opening this conversation to everyone relevant, because I am not playing messenger boy and because no one listens to me, anyway.

Wagon, Arkasas, Sleepy is a wereyak from the Horns of terror. He knows both of you already and your roles (clairvoyance and cultist scan), respectively.

I'm out of scans., having scanned sleepyhead and J. passerpout. Grimlock is a cultist, currently with one unused scan (his scan was changelinged from aedan to Avernite, giving us the seer.

Pretty much everyone has reason to be pissed at me; Wagon and Arky because I didn't tell you all about sleepy initially; sleepyhead, because I pushed on graymarch as an alternate choice.


This isn't a Stockholm; per se; just a plea for you all not to freaking kill each other while we still have active JL members on the loose.

Your Panzer hunt came at a time when the priest, doctor, and changeling were still on the board, after you had indicated a Dedonus hunt and we had agreed that Dedonus was a good choice.

The sorc has blocked Claude, Chieron and Capage already, none of them can be the priest.

We're leaning on a hunt on dedonus tonight


Your response to our queries about the hunt was practically taunting Wagonlitz, which was completely unnecessary (Heck, you could have claimed a changling screwed up the hunt, which was totally believable). I would have outed you myself in Wagon's position (although providing the PMs was another issue entirely)

So yeah the truce is up, figured we'd make a play for it. Aedan's solo action was in our favour. You're the only one standing in our way for baddie parity Wagonlitz, which you probably realise.

You can spill the beans, work with the goodies and incriminate yourself for one shot at a hunt, potentially hurting one of the unaligned in the process and drag this out while you search for the final horny wereyak, but my packmate still has your identity and hunts tomorrow.

Your thoughts for today?

So, yes, I was mad, and still think I have some reason to be, especially since I asked for the sorc's name multiple times with no result. The game was practically unwinnable for the goodies, and your actions essentially gave the goodies a shot.
Yes you were a cultist and I was a wolf, our interests weren't 100% aligned. Your goal was to keep all baddies alive and kill all important goodies - mine was to reach parity for my pack.

I think you played poorly as an unaligned baddie, as you shouldn't start handing wolf names over to the opposing pack if you're not committed either way. Note that you gave Wagonlitz the opportunity to out me, which he did, and you acknowledged aedan's case on the PMs which were mostly mine I guess (didn't pay full attention) leading to your own demise and the village seeing a path to victory. Had you only influenced hunts as e.g. a sorc in contact with both packs typically tries to do, all of that could've been avoided.
 

Avernite

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Do still wonder why the changeling thought changing from Aedan to me was somehow a good idea. Sure, I am not usually the seer, but I *am* usually scanned early, so why make the change?
 

randakar

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28
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn