WTF to do about Awakened FEs?

[JuliaArcher]

So I'm playing the game, haven't beat it yet since they always patch it before I can finish a game. I'm doing really well this time. I've even cleared an FE for the first time.

Right after I do so, I meet the other one, which Awakened IMMEDIATELY. Whereas I rolled over the other FE, this one sent a 195K fleet, which I can't muster even with almost 2000 Naval Capacity.

Right now I'm at Tier IV weapons working on tier V, mostly tier V everything else, strong ships, late game, really high tech. It's the year 2340 and I have 68 planets with about 5 or 6 more being colonized. Good leaders with experience. 1582 naval cap WITHOUT Grand Armada, which I can have active any time due to high influence. Yet this is COMPLETELY INSURMOUNTABLE for me. Rest of the galaxy is pathetic compared to me, but they are much stronger and declared war on my pretty much immediately, wanting all my best planets and effectively spelling out GAME OVER for me since my fleet (still recovering from the other FE) at 1336 naval cap only has 138K. I have no idea how these are supposed to be defeatable. I can't imagine it even being possible to be stronger than I am at the year I'm at, I'm pretty sure I built up pretty much perfectly.

So what gives? Why do they trigger when you have ZERO chance at winning and they're immediately game overs when they do? I never had a chance, nothing I can think of that I could have done differently. I had the game pretty much won until this happened, and it went from winning to GAME OVER. It's making me really not like the game at all, since there is no secret tactic you can use to massacre a much stronger fleet.

What is one supposed to do? I can't even find a good tutorial or a sheet with checkpoints that show what milestones you should aim for in which years or anything. And I'm a fairly high level player. What do I do?

 

[Baron Jukaga]

Wait for the Unbidden to show up, let the AFE take it on. Attack them while their fleet is away, crush the survivors that come back to fight you. Worked for me but it was touch and go. See if you can sneak some science vessels to research the AFE/Unbidden wrecks, there are some nice goodies.

Oh and max max max for energy production and you can safely go way over your ship cap.

At 195 to 138 fleet strength you're not far off, just dont engage them full on. Luring their remnant fleet to a 7 starbase rosette with debuffs can help as well.

And of course fit your ships to min/max damage and protection relative to the AFE builds.

 

[Alectron]

Submit or die. In all seriousness though, you can try waiting for AE's rival to awaken and ally them and use both of your fleets to at least make it even. You can also try spawning a disaster next to them so they will have some of their fleet busy fighting. However, I had this situation twice and both times AE completely annihilated the invaders.

 

[TheBromgrev]

The only solution I've found is to blob, then blob harder. Killing a fallen empire and stealing their tech is also mandatory.

 

[mike8472]

Wait for the Unbidden to show up, let the AFE take it on. Attack them while their fleet is away, crush the survivors that come back to fight you. Worked for me but it was touch and go. See if you can sneak some science vessels to research the AFE/Unbidden wrecks, there are some nice goodies.

Oh and max max max for energy production and you can safely go way over your ship cap.

At 195 to 138 fleet strength you're not far off, just dont engage them full on. Luring their remnant fleet to a 7 starbase rosette with debuffs can help as well.

And of course fit your ships to min/max damage and protection relative to the AFE builds.

I had a similar situation. I was by far the most powerful empire in the galaxy. It was the year 2305 only 105 years into the game and the FE next to be woke, apparently I was doing so well the FE now noticed me as a threat. My fleet was about 140k, tech was good mostly lvl V. It helped that a neighbor of mine decleared war on me about 50 years in and he to my surprise had a titan in his fleet. I wiped him with substantial losses on my part but I gained some nice tech. Anyway the War in heaven kicked off about 2318 or there abouts and after about 5 years of playing cat and mouse and fighting of hordes of AI enemy fleets all around my empire I decided to engage the FE main fleet, nearly 300k vs my 140k with the help of a few 15-20k minor AI fleets.

I used Torps and combo distruptions/plasma on corvettes. PD on destroyers and curisers mixing it up with more plasma/disrupters and artillery on some cruisers in a L slot. Battleships were combo of XL particle lancers, L slots artillery and plasma, mostly artillery. End result is I won the battle at a huge cost, my fleet was reduced to 40k, one 20k AI fleet died an another lived.

So don't be to worried about the fleet power, each battlecruiser you kill takes about 5k off the fleet power. I beat him 2 to 1 odds and he out teched me, but I had superior numbers of ships and lots of corvetts and destroyers, lots of PD.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Build highly effective fleet composition, kill them a lot.

1:1 Corvette to Battleship.

Build battleships with 1 Lance, 2 Kinetic Artillery, 4 Medium Plasma. On one in five battleships substitute 2x Medium Plasma for 2x Flak Artillery.
Build corvettes with 1 Gauss, 2 Plasma.

Fit shield capacitors to everything, stack shields for protection where possible.

A fleet of 100 battleships and 100 corvettes built like that would be able to defeat 2x its own fleet power in Fallen Empire ships. 3x if they're Xenophobe (no lance synergy, less effective focus fire against shields, but more dangerous to corvettes).


Alternatively, build 1:2 Corvette to Cruiser. Same corvettes, cruisers with 1 Kinetic Artillery, 4 Medium Plasma. Shadow a fallen empire fleet until it turns to attack then immediately warp one system and stop. The enemy fleet will exit jump at point blank range where their XL slots are useless against ships with orbit behaviour. You can defeat fleets of vastly greater fleetpower that way.

 

[Beyond Disbelief]

One gamey solution is to not own fleets over 40k (the trigger for awaken), but that only lasts you so long since AI can trigger it too, but it buys you time to tech up.

Like another has said, the solution to fleet cap is more monthly energy. At 68 planets you're likely swimming in resources and mineral income don't do you much good. 200-300k fleet is not impossible once you tech up

For your current game, if they aren't interacting with you yet, you'll be fine for a while. If they are, submit and become a satellite. I think only knowlege keepers will drain you 25% of your research? even then you'd still be better off submitting as a satellite to prepare and bide your time for when they get caught in a war that takes their fleets away.

One note to keep in mind is that if you submit to become a satellite, you're essentially a vassal and you give up all your existing vassals and protectorates.

 

[Baron Jukaga]

I'd go with full Flak cruisers, about a dozen or so with 100% flak armament will end any AFE's fighter swarm quicker than you can blink. Also I wouldn't bother with spinal mount weapons at all against AFEs, rather full plasma is the way to go. I would go 2 Corvettes to 1 Battleship for more soak, combined with the flak cruiser section you should be good.

 

[JuliaArcher]

First, they already declared war on me. Second, I don't even know what Lance is, I'm thinking it's too early in the game for that? I've never even seen such tech pop up anywhere. Second, I have no way to find out what loadout they have so I can counter them. Third, they have no rivals or anything, they are the only FE left because I already killed the other one. My ratio for ships is 1:2:4:8 biggest to smallest and I have disruptor/plasma/kinetic loadouts. Only one ship of each class though otherwise everything gets messed up completely when you upgrade fleets and they all upgrade to the same one (something they should fix to have them upgrade to the most similar ship config). There is no crisis yet, still too early I'm pretty sure and I certainly don't have the dangerous techs for them. I don't think this game can be salvaged.

Why does the awakening trigger at 40K when their fleets are almost 200K and every awakened FE I've ever met declared war pretty much instantly? So far an awakened AE is automatic game over.

 

[Beyond Disbelief]

First, they already declared war on me. Second, I don't even know what Lance is, I'm thinking it's too early in the game for that? I've never even seen such tech pop up anywhere. Second, I have no way to find out what loadout they have so I can counter them. Third, they have no rivals or anything, they are the only FE left because I already killed the other one. My ratio for ships is 1:2:4:8 biggest to smallest and I have disruptor/plasma/kinetic loadouts. Only one ship of each class though otherwise everything gets messed up completely when you upgrade fleets and they all upgrade to the same one (something they should fix to have them upgrade to the most similar ship config). There is no crisis yet, still too early I'm pretty sure and I certainly don't have the dangerous techs for them. I don't think this game can be salvaged.

Why does the awakening trigger at 40K when their fleets are almost 200K and every awakened FE I've ever met declared war pretty much instantly? So far an awakened AE is automatic game over.

You're giving up too easily and too easily intimidated by numbers.

I came across Awaken FE with around 60-planets as well and that was my third Stellaris game ever, firs ttime ever running across them, without ever reading up on anything about them prior to reading the awwaken message, and I came out ahead after several decades after catching them in another war with their fleet away from home.

Take what advice applicable from here, or wait until that you are able to take the advice, do some research (read the stellaris wiki, read how other people deal with it from google/reddit search, etc.)

An important thing to note and I suspect is an attitude change you need is to not assume every situation is dealt with head on through military force. If they already declared war on you, then try to minimize losses and force a white peace or as few planet cessations as possible and try to get vassalized.

I'm more concerned about why did you wait until the declaration of war before seeking help. Did you reject all of their demands for submission or are they xenophobic FE?

 

[JuliaArcher]

You're giving up too easily and too easily intimidated by numbers.

I came across Awaken FE with around 60-planets as well and that was my third Stellaris game ever, firs ttime ever running across them, without ever reading up on anything about them prior to reading the awwaken message, and I came out ahead after several decades after catching them in another war with their fleet away from home.

Take what advice applicable from here, or wait until that you are able to take the advice, do some research (read the stellaris wiki, read how other people deal with it from google/reddit search, etc.)

An important thing to note and I suspect is an attitude change you need is to not assume every situation is dealt with head on through military force. If they already declared war on you, then try to minimize losses and force a white peace or as few planet cessations as possible and try to get vassalized.

I'm more concerned about why did you wait until the declaration of war before seeking help. Did you reject all of their demands for submission or are they xenophobic FE?

I refused to submit to them. After all, that would stop me from winning the game since they wanted to shut down my tech progress. Their war demands, they want ALL my best systems, and their fleet is only two systems away from my fleet in the save. I waited because I didn't think it would be 195K, or I thought I'd be able to use tactics to fight only like a third at a time. But they put all their ships in one big fleet and came right at me. They are Fanatical Purifiers and I'm fanatic materialist and xenophobic.

 

[I_am_Nemo]

Don't fight their fleet if you can't beat it. Just run away. If they take a planet, wait till they move on, then run armies in and take it back. If they have any vassals in the war, take their planets to run up warscore on your side. Stall until the "length of war" modifier goes positive (will take a /long/ time, but I've done it). If you can keep them from running up warscore, you can probably white peace them.

 

[JuliaArcher]

Don't fight their fleet if you can't beat it. Just run away. If they take a planet, wait till they move on, then run armies in and take it back. If they have any vassals in the war, take their planets to run up warscore on your side. Stall until the "length of war" modifier goes positive (will take a /long/ time, but I've done it). If you can keep them from running up warscore, you can probably white peace them.

I'll try but not sure how I'm gonna stop them from killing my fleet. I can run, sure, but they are faster than me and have overwhelming tech superiority.

Question, am I behind where I should be on tech in 2340? I am just researching the tier V stuff, don't have endgame techs yet, but all other powers but this awakened FE are "pathetic" compared to me so I thought I was ahead of the curve until this happened. Also, they awakened immediately when I started getting techs from the other FE I beat already (they attacked me for colonizing a Tomb world though it didn't say the planet was under their care). My tech points needed are in the tens of thousands due to the number of planets and people I have. I spread out and colonized as much as I could. Oh, and they only brought their fleet, not their armies. They seem to be specifically after my fleet. And I have warp drives and they have I'm guessing Jump Drive (next thing I can research). Energy per turn is about 800, minerals 500 (I went heavy minerals early, then midgame I suddenly went huge into deficit so I repurposed for credits). Tech per turn is about 650 each. Year again is 2340. How am I doing compared to normal? I think I'm doing awesome but I have yet to complete the game once due to the length.

 

[Squizzy77]

A strategy that worked for me.

When you conquer your first FE, Don't take all the planets for yourself. Liberate one, vassalize, then give back all the other planets to your new best friend. Tech treaty then for the 25% bonus.

But almost as important, you now have a very loyal and powerful ally to help you.

A good tactic to take on an awakened empire is to create a space station defence flower somewhere. Send in a small "come at me bro" destracting fleet. Have distract fleet run all over the galaxy whilst your main fleet & allies (hopefully a powerful ex-FE among them) gather at the defence flower. Position them into short range of your snare station (AE have advantage at long range). Bring distract fleet to main fleet location.

Profit.

 

[Pchang]

You gave up too easy. A 138K fleet can beat an AFE fleet of 195K if it is designed correctly.

With what you have, the build should be:
1/2 ships = max evasion corvettes 2 plasmas and 1 Gauss gun.
1/4 ships = cruiser 1 Kinetic battery/Artillery and 3M plasma 1 flak or 1L gauss gun and 3M plasma 1 flak
1/4 ships = BB 2 Kinetic battery/artillery 8 M plasma or 2 L Gauss gun 8 M plasma

 

[JuliaArcher]

You gave up too easy. A 138K fleet can beat an AFE fleet of 195K if it is designed correctly.

With what you have, the build should be:
1/2 ships = max evasion corvettes 2 plasmas and 1 Gauss gun.
1/4 ships = cruiser 1 Kinetic battery/Artillery and 3M plasma 1 flak or 1L gauss gun and 3M plasma 1 flak
1/4 ships = BB 2 Kinetic battery/artillery 8 M plasma or 2 L Gauss gun 8 M plasma

Like I said, I'm only into tier IV weapons. Again, only 2340. I'm currently researching Gauss, don't have Flak or Kinetic Battery (haven't even seen those techs come up as choices yet).

Also, like I already said, my ratio is 1:2:4:8. This fleet already exists (~1500 fleet cap used out of about 2200 available due to just finishing the war with the other FE), and I'm at war, so I don't have the luxury of changing my fleet composition at the moment because they are already attacking. I don't even know if I need point defense, I have no idea what their ships can do as I'm not allowed to look at their ship builds even when I'm in the same system and don't know how to identify stuff on sight. And the whole thing where I have one spec per type due to how upgrading works (if you have two specs, they'll all upgrade to one of them and then you lose all of the other, something they really need to change in the game). What I have right now is about 360 corvettes, 180 destroyers, 90 cruisers, and 45 battleships primarily equipped with disruptor/plasma combo combined with kinetic tier IV weapons (NOTHING that can be countered by point defense, no missiles or torpedos since they seem really freaking BAD compared to everything else).

On that note, they could fix missiles by just having them ignore shields again. Dunno why they broke missiles and such.

 

[EU3NOOB]

What kind of FE was it?

 

[JuliaArcher]

What kind of FE was it?

Some Holy Guardians I think. They had Holy Worlds and got pissed the second I colonized a Tomb World with an irradiated species.

 

[Pchang]

Do you know that science ships can research the battle debris to reverse engineer much of their technology?
In any case, you do need PD because all Fallen Empires use strike craft.
With your current 1500 fleet cap, this would be about the following:
200 Corvettes, 2 plasma, 1 autocannon (no shields or armor, just all power plants for maximum evasion)
50 DDs, 1M autocannon, 2S plasma, 2 PD (max shields and shield capacitor if you have it)
100 Cruisers 1L highest kinetic, 4M plasma (max shields and 2 shield capacitors if you have it)
100 BBs 2L highest kinetic, 8M plasma (max shields and 2 shield capacitors if you have it)

 

[JuliaArcher]

Well yes I knew that. Like I said, I consider myself a somewhat high tier player. I did that with the FE and that's how I got several techs I'd been missing, but the higher up techs I only got about 25-50% of because the FE was actually pretty small.

Also, I don't know the abbreviations used around here, what is a DD and BB? Destroyer and Battleship? Except then why DD or BB?

And also, the proper ratio for ships largest to smallest is 2:2:1:4??? Are destroyers really that bad?