Wrong historical Vietnamese contents

[StormyH]

1. Disasters
In the file "disaster_northern_and_southern_dynasties". There are some non-historical contents.
"
# Start event - Pick a side
country_event = {
id = dai_disaster.1
title = dai_disaster.1.t
desc = dai_disaster.1.d
picture = CIVIL_WAR_eventPicture

is_triggered_only = yes
fire_only_once = yes

option = { # Le (or Trinh if later) dynasty in the south
name = dai_disaster.1.a
trigger = {
num_of_owned_provinces_with = {
value = 1
OR = {
area = vietnam_area
area = cambodia_area
area = mekong_area
area = angkor_area
area = champa_area
area = tay_nguyen_area
region = malaya_region
region = indonesia_region
}
}
}
set_country_flag = dai_southern_dynasty
custom_tooltip = north_vietnam_breaks_away
if = {
limit = {
current_age = age_of_reformation
NOT = { dynasty = Le }
}
define_ruler = {
dynasty = Le
}
}
else_if = {
limit = {
NOT = { current_age = age_of_reformation }
NOT = { dynasty = Trinh }
}
define_ruler = {
dynasty = Trinh
}
}
country_event = {
id = dai_disaster.2
}
}
option = { # Mac (or Nguyen if later) dynasty in the north
name = dai_disaster.1.b
trigger = {
num_of_owned_provinces_with = {
value = 1
OR = {
area = north_laos_area
area = central_thai_area
area = northern_thai_area
area = red_river_delta_area
area = sukhothai_area
area = champasak_area
area = khorat_area
area = vientiane_area
superregion = china_superregion
region = burma_region
}
}
}
set_country_flag = dai_northern_dynasty
custom_tooltip = south_vietnam_breaks_away
if = {
limit = {
current_age = age_of_reformation
NOT = { dynasty = Mac }
}
define_ruler = {
dynasty = Mac
}
}
else_if = {
limit = {
NOT = { current_age = age_of_reformation }
NOT = { dynasty = Nguyen }
}
define_ruler = {
dynasty = Nguyen
}
}
country_event = {
id = dai_disaster.2
}
}
}
"
Historically, Trinh was in the North not the South, and Nguyen was in South not the North. Both are Mahayana. In the game Annam is Theravada and Tonkin is Mahayana, which is pretty ahistorical for a SEA update.
Things you guys should change:
" option = { # Le (or Trinh if later) dynasty in the south" -> "option = { # Le (or Nguyen if later) dynasty in the south"
" option = { # Mac (or Nguyen if later) dynasty in the north " -> " option = { # Mac (or Trinh if later) dynasty in the north "

2. Central Highland tribes(aka Tay Nguyen tribes or Stateless society tribes)
KoHo and Rhade are all in the wrong places

Sources:
Rhade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rade_people
Koho: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koho_people

3. Please reconsider Vietnamese culture group
I know you guys did that for the game balance, but doesn't our game need some historical accurate contents? And it isn't "balanced" at all if the Ming becomes stronger with that culture group. And If Vietnamese were Chinese, how would they try to gain independence from China for 2000 years? Why don't you try the "Jurchen -> Manchu" mechanic?
If Vietnamese are Chinese, why aren't Koreans, Japanese, Ryukyuans?

In the end. I put my last trust in you guys, I'm not angry, just disappointed

 

[Delpheus]

1. Disasters
In the file "disaster_northern_and_southern_dynasties". There are some non-historical contents.
"
# Start event - Pick a side
country_event = {
id = dai_disaster.1
title = dai_disaster.1.t
desc = dai_disaster.1.d
picture = CIVIL_WAR_eventPicture

is_triggered_only = yes
fire_only_once = yes

option = { # Le (or Trinh if later) dynasty in the south
name = dai_disaster.1.a
trigger = {
num_of_owned_provinces_with = {
value = 1
OR = {
area = vietnam_area
area = cambodia_area
area = mekong_area
area = angkor_area
area = champa_area
area = tay_nguyen_area
region = malaya_region
region = indonesia_region
}
}
}
set_country_flag = dai_southern_dynasty
custom_tooltip = north_vietnam_breaks_away
if = {
limit = {
current_age = age_of_reformation
NOT = { dynasty = Le }
}
define_ruler = {
dynasty = Le
}
}
else_if = {
limit = {
NOT = { current_age = age_of_reformation }
NOT = { dynasty = Trinh }
}
define_ruler = {
dynasty = Trinh
}
}
country_event = {
id = dai_disaster.2
}
}
option = { # Mac (or Nguyen if later) dynasty in the north
name = dai_disaster.1.b
trigger = {
num_of_owned_provinces_with = {
value = 1
OR = {
area = north_laos_area
area = central_thai_area
area = northern_thai_area
area = red_river_delta_area
area = sukhothai_area
area = champasak_area
area = khorat_area
area = vientiane_area
superregion = china_superregion
region = burma_region
}
}
}
set_country_flag = dai_northern_dynasty
custom_tooltip = south_vietnam_breaks_away
if = {
limit = {
current_age = age_of_reformation
NOT = { dynasty = Mac }
}
define_ruler = {
dynasty = Mac
}
}
else_if = {
limit = {
NOT = { current_age = age_of_reformation }
NOT = { dynasty = Nguyen }
}
define_ruler = {
dynasty = Nguyen
}
}
country_event = {
id = dai_disaster.2
}
}
}
"
Historically, Trinh was in the North not the South, and Nguyen was in South not the North. Both are Mahayana. In the game Annam is Theravada and Tonkin is Mahayana, which is pretty ahistorical for a SEA update.
Things you guys should change:
" option = { # Le (or Trinh if later) dynasty in the south" -> "option = { # Le (or Nguyen if later) dynasty in the south"
" option = { # Mac (or Nguyen if later) dynasty in the north " -> " option = { # Mac (or Trinh if later) dynasty in the north "

2. Central Highland tribes(aka Tay Nguyen tribes or Stateless society tribes)
KoHo and Rhade are all in the wrong placesView attachment 710643

Sources:
Rhade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rade_people
Koho: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koho_people

3. Please reconsider Vietnamese culture group
I know you guys did that for the game balance, but doesn't our game need some historical accurate contents? And it isn't "balanced" at all if the Ming becomes stronger with that culture group. And If Vietnamese were Chinese, how would they try to gain independence from China for 2000 years? Why don't you try the "Jurchen -> Manchu" mechanic?
If Vietnamese are Chinese, why aren't Koreans, Japanese, Ryukyuans?

In the end. I put my last trust in you guys, I'm not angry, just disappointed

It is strange that Vietnamese culture would be glossed over as Chinese when European cultures have so much diversity represented in the game, awkward...

 

[MordredViking]

Nice report, thank you. Forwarded to the Devs to take a look.

 

[Jimmyfeellucky]

Thanks @Mordred Viking
Also I suggest removing Tay Son and Hau Le as dynasty names? Since these name aren't family names. The rulers of Tay Son dynasty is the house of Nguyen and Hau Le means later Le dynasty to distinguish with former Le dynasty of different house with the same name. Similar to Liu Bei of Shu Han, nobody calls him Shu Han Bei.

I wanna add some more important dynasty family names of Dai Viet during this time, such as "Vu" (an independent warlord in northern Vietnam), "Nguyen Phuc" (full name of Nguyen lords of Annam), "Nguyen Quang" (corrected family name of Tay Son) and keep Nguyen separate as the most common Vietnamese names.

The file 00_cutures defines Ruler's name.
vietnamese = {
primary = DAI
dynasty_names = {
"Lê" "Tran" "Hau Le" "Mac" "Tay Son" "Nguyen" "Trinh"
}

 

[Concordance]

It is strange that Vietnamese culture would be glossed over as Chinese when European cultures have so much diversity represented in the game, awkward...

And they also kicked the Bai and Zhuang cultures, which are actually represented in Ming proper at game start, out of the Chinese culture group.
Vietnamese should not be in the Chinese culture group. Rather it should be a choice if they took the mandate.

 

[EasternTiger]

Thanks @Mordred Viking
Also I suggest removing Tay Son and Hau Le as dynasty names? Since these name aren't family names. The rulers of Tay Son dynasty is the house of Nguyen and Hau Le means later Le dynasty to distinguish with former Le dynasty of different house with the same name. Similar to Liu Bei of Shu Han, nobody calls him Shu Han Bei.

I wanna add some more important dynasty family names of Dai Viet during this time, such as "Vu" (an independent warlord in northern Vietnam), "Nguyen Phuc" (full name of Nguyen lords of Annam), "Nguyen Quang" (corrected family name of Tay Son) and keep Nguyen separate as the most common Vietnamese names.

The file 00_cutures defines Ruler's name.
vietnamese = {
primary = DAI
dynasty_names = {
"Lê" "Tran" "Hau Le" "Mac" "Tay Son" "Nguyen" "Trinh"
}

Dynasty names aren't derived from the 00_cultures file unless you're playing a custom nation. It's derived from dynasty_names from the country tag file. The cultures file is rarely ever updated. If they update the Vietnamese names in the 00_cultures, they should just take the dynasty_names from the DaiViet.txt.
That would be:
leader_names = {
Tran Ho Lê Ly Ngo Mac Trinh Nguyen Huynh Phan Pham Vu Dang Bui Do Duong
Banh Cao Chau Chu Chung Diep Dam Dao Dinh Doan Giang Ha Han Kieu Kim
La Lac Lam Lieu Luc Luong Luu Ma Mach Mai Nghiem Pho Phung Quach Quang
Quyen Ta Thach Thai Thi Thuy Tieu To Ton Trang Trieu Truong Van Vinh Vuong
}

 

[Jayavarman]

2. Central Highland tribes(aka Tay Nguyen tribes or Stateless society tribes)
KoHo and Rhade are all in the wrong placesView attachment 710643

Sources:
Rhade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rade_people
Koho: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koho_people

Do you have map sources?

 

[leefnmajors]

Do you have map sources?

If you click the links, it shows you that the Rade people currently reside in the Đắk Lắk province (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Đắk_Lắk_Province), and the Koho people live in the Lâm Đồng province (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lâm_Đồng_Province). A little simple logic from there will tell you that the Rade are north of the Koho, so... there you go.

 

[FleetingRain]

Historically, Trinh was in the North not the South, and Nguyen was in South not the North.

Devs were warned of this in the very same DD that showed the changes. We still don't know their reasoning.

And they also kicked the Bai and Zhuang cultures, which are actually represented in Ming proper at game start, out of the Chinese culture group.
Vietnamese should not be in the Chinese culture group. Rather it should be a choice if they took the mandate.

Hilariously, they made Vietnamese Chinese precisely so it would be easier for them to control China should they ever get the Mandate (I kid you not).

 

[Jimmyfeellucky]

Dynasty names aren't derived from the 00_cultures file unless you're playing a custom nation. It's derived from dynasty_names from the country tag file. The cultures file is rarely ever updated. If they update the Vietnamese names in the 00_cultures, they should just take the dynasty_names from the DaiViet.txt.
That would be:
leader_names = {
Tran Ho Lê Ly Ngo Mac Trinh Nguyen Huynh Phan Pham Vu Dang Bui Do Duong
Banh Cao Chau Chu Chung Diep Dam Dao Dinh Doan Giang Ha Han Kieu Kim
La Lac Lam Lieu Luc Luong Luu Ma Mach Mai Nghiem Pho Phung Quach Quang
Quyen Ta Thach Thai Thi Thuy Tieu To Ton Trang Trieu Truong Van Vinh Vuong
}

I'm certainly sure the one you mentioned is leader's name not ruler's name, and the file 00_cultures is the right one for ruler's name. Take a look at the screenshot below.

A male ruler with the name of Thuy Tram Tay Son. If I recall, Thuy Tram is a modern female name. Though I might be wrong.
The ruler's name definitely needs more love for many tags.

 

[Jimmyfeellucky]

Devs were warned of this in the very same DD that showed the changes. We still don't know their reasoning.

The previous content designer moved on to new project and the new Tinto one may not know about this.

Hilariously, they made Vietnamese Chinese precisely so it would be easier for them to control China should they ever get the Mandate (I kid you not).

They made Dai Viet ahistorically move north into China but also more difficult to historically move south.

 

[Arandomprince]

Also Dai Viet needs a bit more dev, i still see they are annexed by sea power pretty often. It's a bit ahistorical, since they almost had the largest pop at that time in the region

 

[BlazeKnight_]

Also Dai Viet needs a bit more dev, i still see they are annexed by sea power pretty often. It's a bit ahistorical, since they almost had the largest pop at that time in the region

Agree, Dai Viet is the 3rd most disrespected nation in this game (1st and 2nd goes to Joseon and Ming, ofc). Wrong culture setup and low dev vs history. Also, while their NIs aren't bad, it's worse than Khmer and now the extremely overpowered Siam will stomp everything. Honestly expected them to get a slight buff in 1.31.

 

[Sumonious]

Any other players here is Vietnamese? =]. It seems at least @StormyH and @Jimmyfeellucky are, right? I'm new the game, just accidentally stumble upon this thread while searching for Dai Viet strategy. It would be cool to connect with other fellow Vietnamese players.

Sorry for being off-topic.