Wrong anatolia.

[pac]

By the way, the best solution when there were clearly two or more cultures in a province is to add province modifiers representing all of them.

When a province's owner is Turkish, the Turkish culture can become predominant, and the province culture becomes Turkish: but the Greeks and Armenians are still there in the province modifiers. If the province changes hands to a Greek ruler, its culture can flip by event to Greek: but the Turks … You get the idea.

Something basic like this is easily doable (by Paradox, if they felt like it, just as much as by modders). Province Culture itself is really just another province modifier, just one displayed in a different way and that gets certain special treatment in the engine code.


Edit: The Dei Gratia mod already does this on a huge scale, but for religious, not cultural, minorities. However, to represent a specific regional cultural situation rather than all world religions, you would not need anything like the amount of DG's code.

 

[heraklonas]

The rest of your post is accurate but this is way of the mark, especially from someone who studied Byzantine history. What essentially became an amalgamation that split up again, was a process that took centuries after the fall of the empire. Not before. This can apply selectively if you will to the Asia minor territories (who by the period were almost 400 under occupation), but saying that the reigning elite of Byzantium and its European holdings (even those that start under occupation in the games start) had similar culture to the Ottomans prior to the fall of the empire is fallacy at its finest. Unless I misunderstood your post that is.

Agreed. In only meant the Anatolian Greeks living under Ottoman rule in the 1440s (which were used to Seljuk rule mostly for centuries already). In the dwindling empire and some other territories like Crete, Cyprus, Epirus the cultural situation was very different.

 

[unmerged(375695)]

Over the course of the 15th century the Ottoman Turks conquered Cappadocia, the Cappadocian countryside remained largely Greek populated, with a smaller Armenian population even after the Ottoman conquest.[45] During the reign of Ottoman Sultan Murad III (1574 to 1595) the region of Cappadocia became largely Turkified in culture and language through a gradual process of acculturation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greeks

An other heavy fail of paradox ethnography. What do you think?

 

[AndreasPhokas]

I think a lot of it is due to simply game balance. I could see a couple greek coastal provinces but yeah about it. I think you're reading into all of this a touch to much.

 

[unmerged(375695)]

We must do something. We need to make the developementers think about to change somethink. Anatola is heavily unaccurate. I tested the game with the changes and it was not as unbalanced as you propably think. It feels more authentic.

 

[zemuzil]

nationalism and bu...hurt the thread

 

[unmerged(375695)]

As i told you, they have changed it. Smyrna is now greek and one Region at the black sea. Also armenia had been reworked and some kurdish provinces.
I told you. I was right.

 

[Big Blue Blob]

I think a lot of it is due to simply game balance. I could see a couple greek coastal provinces but yeah about it. I think you're reading into all of this a touch to much.

As I have said many times, history was not balanced. Some nations are stronger than others. I have tested a better Anatolia myself, and my game has not broken.

 

[Mikalos]

However, I wouldn't include records from outside the game's time frame. While it's certainly logical to assume a Greek majority in 1900 means there was a Greek majority in 1500, it's not actually evidence of anything. Logic has no place in history.

in no way is it logical, actually. Things like saying its logical is why people think the new world had a million people in it before europe came to populate it

As I have said many times, history was not balanced. Some nations are stronger than others. I have tested a better Anatolia myself, and my game has not broken.

fun gameplay balance trumps historical reality; historically accurate borders are 1) not even in play, they consciously ignored any reality in eu4 for provinces 2) unimportant for this, honestly

 

[Chamboozer]

As i told you, they have changed it. Smyrna is now greek

As illogical as it is. Only the lower (coastal) city of Smyrna was Greek in 1444, it had recently been sacked by Timur as well causing even more of the Christian population to flee. Smyrna was also tiny back then, other urban centers in the province were much more significant. Definitive Ottoman tax registers from the mid-17th Century (when Smyrna became important) show the Greek population at 3%. Smyrna as a majority Greek city dates to 18th and 19th Century migration.

Merlijn Olnon, "Brought under the law of the land" : the history, demography and geography of crossculturalism in early modern Izmir, and the Köprülü Project of 1678 (PhD diss., Leiden University, 2014). Pages 23-9 and 63.

 

[PiriReis]

Thread necromancy

Etymology
Comes from the word thread, the flow of a discussion in a forum, and the word necromancy, the raising of the dead.

Noun
thread necromancy (uncountable)

(Internet, slang) The act of posting in a thread on an Internet forum, that is already considered dead or/and out of discussion.

 

[talilu]

I think Veritas et Fortitudo covers all of these culture problems and represents Greek and Armenian culture (mostly Armenian) correctly. They even bothered to add Pontian culture to Kaffa and Trebizond! Also there is that useless one province Cappadocian culture that you can't even release as a vassal... lol

 

[Big Blue Blob]

in no way is it logical, actually. Things like saying its logical is why people think the new world had a million people in it before europe came to populate it



fun gameplay balance trumps historical reality; historically accurate borders are 1) not even in play, they consciously ignore
d any reality in eu4 for provinces 2) unimportant for this, honestly

Has it ever occurred to you that historical reality is fun gameplay balance for some?

 

[unmerged(375695)]

I think Veritas et Fortitudo covers all of these culture problems and represents Greek and Armenian culture (mostly Armenian) correctly. They even bothered to add Pontian culture to Kaffa and Trebizond! Also there is that useless one province Cappadocian culture that you can't even release as a vassal... lol

What if i tell you that this was done by me

 

[unmerged(375695)]

Definitive Ottoman tax registers from the mid-17th Century (when Smyrna became important) show the Greek population at 3%.

Christian greek. Not greek.

 

[DevastatingTech]

Why you guys bumped up this stupid fool nationalist thread?

 

[Taterthomp2]

If you could cite the source of those quotes and provide links to/pictures of the referenced list and maps and then repost this in the bug reports subforum, Paradox may well change the history files accordingly. Minor changes like this are definitely low priority, but some patches have made similar changes due to bug reports pointing out historical inaccuracies.

However, I wouldn't include records from outside the game's time frame. While it's certainly logical to assume a Greek majority in 1900 means there was a Greek majority in 1500, it's not actually evidence of anything. Logic has no place in history.

lol.

 

[Taterthomp2]

in no way is it logical, actually. Things like saying its logical is why people think the new world had a million people in it before europe came to populate it



fun gameplay balance trumps historical reality; historically accurate borders are 1) not even in play, they consciously ignored any reality in eu4 for provinces 2) unimportant for this, honestly

You...do realise.. the new world had a million and more people.... ._______....

this for instance is ONLY north america.

 

[AndrewT]

Off topic and necromancy. Start a fresh thread if you wish; here if about this game only, otherwise in Ot if about the general topic.