Wow defensive platforms are just gone once destroyed?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Roddo

Captain
21 Badges
May 20, 2016
482
100
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Again.
Why? Why would I even bother to build them if there's no point in the game progression where I can safely say a system can hold it's own against a moderately strong invading fleet?
Better put those alloys into fleet, and this is why it's bad design.

Because they are not even an option! In stellaris there's always A BETTER option, and an BAD/RP/SUBPAR option.
And they only reason you can take an BAD/RP/SUBPAR option and get away with it on single player is because the AI is not so bright right now.... Try going the RP way in a multiplayer game, I reckon you'd just get trashed around, and that's just bad design/balance IMO.
 

SteveRaptor

Corporal
14 Badges
Jun 30, 2017
34
0
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Again.
Why? Why would I even bother to build them if there's no point in the game progression where I can safely say a system can hold it's own against a moderately strong invading fleet?
Better put those alloys into fleet, and this is why it's bad design.

Because they are not even an option! In stellaris there's always A BETTER option, and an BAD/RP/SUBPAR option.
And they only reason you can take an BAD/RP/SUBPAR option and get away with it on single player is because the AI is not so bright right now.... Try going the RP way in a multiplayer game, I reckon you'd just get trashed around, and that's just bad design/balance IMO.

A good reason to build them is in the early-mid game, against aggressive AI opponents, when the AI actually used to declare war on you.
Early game is usually when starbases are most useful to fend off early aggression.
At that time your limited in fleet cap and star bases, and sometimes can't field enough fleets to cover all chockpoints, so you can build a max starbase with platforms at those points.
Problem is, they are way, way too expansive at the early game, and then adding the alloy upkeep on top of it...
 

carmenara

Private
17 Badges
Feb 27, 2018
14
1
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
Too expensive and weak against even mid game fleets. The Ion Cannon comes too late to make any difference when alloys are better spent on 2 Battleships packing giga cannon and kinetic artillery.

I would like to have an option to build heavier and larger defensive platforms like the fallen empires.
 

Banelingline

Private
8 Badges
Jan 31, 2019
17
0
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
The current defense platform, for reference, has 1000 Hull and takes four months to build, at a cost of 60 Alloys. With no disengagement or evasion. Defense Platform sections are monotype exclusively, offering four S equivalent slots, and each Defense Platform has two slots. In comparison to the Destroyer, it has 200 more Hull and superior weapon slots overall, with an advantage of about 120% more utility slot durability from being Medium instead of Small slots, as well as an extra Utility slot. Meanwhile, the Destroyer can move, has the best disengagement chance, and has 35% base Evasion, as well as more versatility in weapon slots. In terms of cost, they have the same cost, in both time and Alloy.

I'd suspect that they could have 2000 base hull (or perhaps disproportionate hull improvements, starting at 1200 and upgrading to 2200, somewhere in the ballpark of these numbers) and remain able to be dealt with due to their limited numbers in a given system and lack of recovery, with sections being unlocked as the game goes on. The start-of-game sections being shifted to perhaps 5S/1A utility slots, containing Small and Point Defense dedicated sections, as well as a single-G section, while the midgame sections would shift to 3M/1A utility slots and Medium and Heavy dedicated slots, as well as the solely missile section. Then you get the endgame sections, carrying 2L/2A utility slots, with the X-size and Hanger weapons being present.

And yes, they'd take the same time and base Alloys to build, regardless of section. You're losing them every time a serious fight breaks out, and they're static, so they can afford to escalate cost and time effectiveness quite immensely because you're burning those things by the dozen. Also, for reference, the only things able to one-shot the 2k Hull platforms are X-class weapons and Perdition Beams. At the end, they would basically be two-thirds of a Battleship. The goal, here, is to delay while inflicting noteworthy damage, or turning the tide of a battle with a friendly fleet for them to support. Cost efficiency is the name of the game, and having defenses be extremely cost effective does a lot to discourage war reliance.

---

Personally, when it comes to counters, I'd prefer them to be matters of tech types being fielded instead of classes countering eachother in general. Roughly balanced monofleets, but mixed fleet value being very imbalanced and generally quite superior to monofleets. The role of ship types should be based on their cost-effectiveness, making mixed fleets optimal by making ships deliberately unable to be optimal in cost-effectiveness as monofleets. Corvettes being very good for niches like point defense and missile damage, Destroyers having the best damage by cost rate, Cruisers being really good for soaking damage for their cost, Battleships being less effective at any particular thing but making up for it by being more cost-effective than the equivalent stats in other ships, as well as deeper dynamics with regards to preserving damage for long periods or immediately removing a couple important targets.

Of course, if you've had a large tech lead the whole game because you went tall, you could get away with replacing your Cruisers with Battleships and rely on very quickly crushing the enemy's primary fleet before sending in Destroyer fleets to run over their stations and seriously hamper their ability to recover. Similarly, if you have a large economy lead, you could rush out a large number of Destroyer fleets to run over the enemy with mass firepower they can't keep up with your production of. There'd be checks and balances built into the tech-based counters, such as the former specializing in Kenetics being stonewalled by armored ships, while conversely being very vulnerable to a Bastion with the weapons to counter their defenses gutting their hard-to-replace fleet.
 

Chthon

Captain
23 Badges
Oct 31, 2011
361
0
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Cities in Motion
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II
The current defense platform, for reference, has 1000 Hull and takes four months to build, at a cost of 60 Alloys. With no disengagement or evasion. Defense Platform sections are monotype exclusively, offering four S equivalent slots, and each Defense Platform has two slots. In comparison to the Destroyer, it has 200 more Hull and superior weapon slots overall, with an advantage of about 120% more utility slot durability from being Medium instead of Small slots, as well as an extra Utility slot. Meanwhile, the Destroyer can move, has the best disengagement chance, and has 35% base Evasion, as well as more versatility in weapon slots. In terms of cost, they have the same cost, in both time and Alloy.
Just a minor note: They aren't all 4x Small. There are 6 options:
4x Small
4x Point Defense
2x Medium
1x Large
2x Hangar (unlocked when you unlock hangar bays)
2x Missile

It might be hard to notice, but there is a scroll bar on the module list.
 

Banelingline

Private
8 Badges
Jan 31, 2019
17
0
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Just a minor note: They aren't all 4x Small. There are 6 options:
4x Small
4x Point Defense
2x Medium
1x Large
2x Hangar (unlocked when you unlock hangar bays)
2x Missile

It might be hard to notice, but there is a scroll bar on the module list.
S-equivalent. There's a nearly universal habit of 4S=4P=2M=2G=1L=1H, and X=2L. Picket Destroyers violating this has been attributed to being a reason why they're garbage. One word, lot of change in meaning.
 

SteveRaptor

Corporal
14 Badges
Jun 30, 2017
34
0
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
S-equivalent. There's a nearly universal habit of 4S=4P=2M=2G=1L=1H, and X=2L. Picket Destroyers violating this has been attributed to being a reason why they're garbage. One word, lot of change in meaning.
This brings me back to my point why they are strongest at the early game, because with the slow pacing of the game now, destroyers can come fairly late now in compared to previous versions, the problem is their cost.
Platforms lose their value quickly once bigger ships come into play and since they have no upgrades to add more weapon or utility slots to them, they lag behind.
At the mid-late game, where fleep cap is no longer an issue, your always better off building an addition fleet rather than defensive platforms.
 

g4borg

Second Lieutenant
31 Badges
Jul 17, 2016
196
30
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
even in early game, spending money to defense without a dedicated build to make up for the alloy loss or build to enhance said stations to the max, will most likely end in a loss.

you might be able to stop a sudden rush (fast declared war) if you have luck and dedicated yourself, but against a somewhat experienced player you will lose in the long run.

the biggest issue will not even be the cost most of the time, but the time needed to rebuild the platforms, and the sheer vulnerability of the station without those extra guns even against a corvette fleet. the extra cost in alloys will put you back in assembling a similarly strengthed fleet in the same time.

as you have to dedicate the whole station for war, losing it will also only add to the attackers cards.

i only see them as viable if you have exactly one choke point, and the ability to field other means of defense (allies, extra resources, an extra fleet)
or against AI. but that should not be the base of any discussion. if you only play AI, you can just as much use mods to change their behaviour.
 

LeanneKaos

First Lieutenant
24 Badges
May 11, 2016
255
9
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I guess what I mean is a rock/paper/scissors dynamic, where one play style is particularly strong against another. So, basically like how kinetic counters energy and vice versa right now. (Or like how medieval style games will use archers/soldiers/cavalry.)

That's more of what I call a soft counter.

Rock/Paper/Scissors, on the other hand, is what I consider a hard-counter situation. And you'll note, you won't get very far if you play pure Rock (or pure Scissors or pure Paper) - thus one could say the nature of the game 'invalidates' any purist playstyle, leaving only the mixed route as a 'valid' one. (And even there you're playing more to luck with some psychology than to strategy.)

Again.
Why? Why would I even bother to build them if there's no point in the game progression where I can safely say a system can hold it's own against a moderately strong invading fleet?.

But if it can hold off a 'moderately strong' invading fleet.. why would anyone ever bother trying to invade until they can build an unreasonably strong fleet? At which point we're back to square one, because your defensive fortress still failed to hold off the only fleet that tried to take it on.
(AI notwithstanding, because for some reason vanilla AI seems to think it can take on forts that it really can't...)
 

Roddo

Captain
21 Badges
May 20, 2016
482
100
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
But if it can hold off a 'moderately strong' invading fleet.. why would anyone ever bother trying to invade until they can build an unreasonably strong fleet? At which point we're back to square one, because your defensive fortress still failed to hold off the only fleet that tried to take it on.
(AI notwithstanding, because for some reason vanilla AI seems to think it can take on forts that it really can't...)

So for you it's ok for ONLY fleets to be the defining factor in a war?
There's no other way of fighting a war rather than fielding massive fleets? There's no need for defensive structures?
There's no room for other equally valid and powerful methods of deterrence?

Anyway, note that in no case I said anything about making the platforms overpowered, but instead BALANCED.

I WANT TO BE ABLE TO CHOOSE to put all of my alloys into platforms and the result be AS EFFECTIVE AS FIELDING A FLEET. I'm not talking about making them the only viable choice, AS ARE FLEETS right now, but a choice. A REAL CHOICE.
 

Ncc 1709

Corporal
20 Badges
Feb 10, 2017
31
1
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Late game base's are a joke. if you use ion cannon, you can hit people as they enter system, or you need super long range for the likes of Terminal Egress.
but if you set them up properly.. you can get some silly strengths that will still get trashed by a fleet 1/4th its strength
6Q9aYnp.png
 

Cikomyr

Major
26 Badges
Mar 15, 2008
689
525
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 500k Club
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Hmmm...

Okay. The more I toy with the concept of DP, the more I think they should have. An added utility when paired with a fleet. Basically, a Fleet/Fixed Defense combo should outfight a fleet that is meant to be stronger.

How about... The fixed defense positions effectively draw All the aggro of space battle by default. That means an invading fleet cannot attack a defending fleet unless the DP are wiped out. If you boost the armor and hit points of DP, making them as resilient as possible, you could probably inflict a large amount of damage on an invading fleet with your own fleet before they can effectively defend themselves.

Alternatively, do the opposite. Force the invading feed to dispose of a defending fleet before they can take out DP. So the fleet battle is effectively acting as an extra time for the DP to take potshots at the invader.

The entire point is to inflict more damage to the attacker than what it cost you. So making DP glass canon might be a good idea: powerful but immobile/fragile. Only truly effective when paired with its screening elements.
 

Chthon

Captain
23 Badges
Oct 31, 2011
361
0
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Cities in Motion
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II
Hmmm...

Okay. The more I toy with the concept of DP, the more I think they should have. An added utility when paired with a fleet. Basically, a Fleet/Fixed Defense combo should outfight a fleet that is meant to be stronger.

How about... The fixed defense positions effectively draw All the aggro of space battle by default. That means an invading fleet cannot attack a defending fleet unless the DP are wiped out. If you boost the armor and hit points of DP, making them as resilient as possible, you could probably inflict a large amount of damage on an invading fleet with your own fleet before they can effectively defend themselves.

Alternatively, do the opposite. Force the invading feed to dispose of a defending fleet before they can take out DP. So the fleet battle is effectively acting as an extra time for the DP to take potshots at the invader.

The entire point is to inflict more damage to the attacker than what it cost you. So making DP glass canon might be a good idea: powerful but immobile/fragile. Only truly effective when paired with its screening elements.
That would fail miserably as the DPs melt like butter within seconds on even midgame fleets. I would argue the opposite is better. At least then the DPs get some shots in before they die.
 

Cikomyr

Major
26 Badges
Mar 15, 2008
689
525
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 500k Club
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
That would fail miserably as the DPs melt like butter within seconds on even midgame fleets. I would argue the opposite is better. At least then the DPs get some shots in before they die.

If you want to make DP defensive platforms, then multiply their HP by a shitton. Make them resilient.

If you want to make them offensive platform protected by a fleet, then at least have their firepower be at least 3-4 times the equivalent power of the same price in a ship.

I think thematically, the first option is better. But mechanically, it'll just be better to go for the 2nd as you said.
 

methegrate

General
27 Badges
Jun 20, 2016
2.410
3.564
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II
If you want to make DP defensive platforms, then multiply their HP by a shitton. Make them resilient.

If you want to make them offensive platform protected by a fleet, then at least have their firepower be at least 3-4 times the equivalent power of the same price in a ship.

I think thematically, the first option is better. But mechanically, it'll just be better to go for the 2nd as you said.

Someone else mentioned making the starbase take all hits first, so you have to get it to zero before you can take out the defensive platforms. I'd be curious how the math on that works, or if it would (somewhat counterintuitively) make DP's too powerful.
 

Cikomyr

Major
26 Badges
Mar 15, 2008
689
525
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 500k Club
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Someone else mentioned making the starbase take all hits first, so you have to get it to zero before you can take out the defensive platforms. I'd be curious how the math on that works, or if it would (somewhat counterintuitively) make DP's too powerful.

Have the DP add its HP to the starbase, and the entire network goes down as one?
 

methegrate

General
27 Badges
Jun 20, 2016
2.410
3.564
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II
Have the DP add its HP to the starbase, and the entire network goes down as one?

Or that, sure. Same question though. Would that make them effective or would it make them too powerful, since any attacking fleet would take steady losses over the fight while with a lump-sum HP the starbase and all defensive platforms would stick around for the whole fight.
 

Banelingline

Private
8 Badges
Jan 31, 2019
17
0
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
But if it can hold off a 'moderately strong' invading fleet.. why would anyone ever bother trying to invade until they can build an unreasonably strong fleet?
Could be 1.3 Fleets or so in strength, necessitating either a tech advantage or a resource advantage/buildup. The point is for them to be cost-effective and demand some effort to deal with, rather than being a sideline. Remember, multiple Fleets can be present

Also, why bother invading when you can get to a large power imbalance ever? Defense structures should exist to make these imbalances of just running right over with brute force less common. A bastion isn't easy to switch out, so if you've specialized, the enemy will quite likely field a fleet to counter that specialization. As a Starbase structure to reduce fleet upkeep exists, you could have a fleet, costing you nearly nothing to keep there (perhaps even have the Destroyer elements be a patrol fleet), that exists to soak fire so the Defense Platforms can deal damage with long-range weapons.
 

Ncc 1709

Corporal
20 Badges
Feb 10, 2017
31
1
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
having the DP segmented is a need. it allows you to take on much stronger platforms with batch's of weaker fleet . go in, kill 2 or 3 platforms, retreat, the next time you hit it, its 2/3 platform weaker
linking them to the hp of the main structure would make FE near impossible to clear out with a weaker force. you would lose so much of your fleet just trying to clear the tower in one hit