Would you say battleships had more effect on WW2 as a resource/money diversion?

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Graf Zeppelin

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While outranging the ennemy is a valid concept on paper, it was not such a supreme concept in the Pacific,
Well hindsight is a bliss but their concept was far from stupid.
 

BaronNoir

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I did not said their concept was stupid. I said that outranging the ennemy, while highly desirable, is not such an ace in the hole when the ennemy know where you are with SIGINT

Also, aircraft design is more often than not a matter of balancing different priorities. The ''outrange'' priority, while commendable, seriously impaired the ''survive battle damage'' priorirty, which could (and did) be crippling for the IJN thanks to their minuscule amount of qualified pilots (and their lack of fuel to train more)

Japanese airmen were supremely competent and qualified in november 1941, and almost irreplacable . That's why an aircraft that could not survive any damage (the TIE fighter of the real world....) was hardly in phase with the Japanese training regiment.

(Of course, as I mentionned, fighting any kind of naval with the United States was a pretty much doomed concept from the start, considering the utterly insane amount of money the US could throw at any problems. Including building two fake carriers to train pilots for landing on them
 
Last edited:

Graf Zeppelin

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Agreed
 

gagenater

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I did not said their concept was stupid. I said that outranging the ennemy, while highly desirable, is not such an ace in the hole when the ennemy know where you are with SIGINT

Also, aircraft design is more often than not a matter of balancing different priorities. The ''outrange'' priority, while commendable, seriously impaired the ''survive battle damage'' priorirty, which could (and did) be crippling for the IJN thanks to their minuscule amount of qualified pilots (and their lack of fuel to train more)

Japanese airmen were supremely competent and qualified in november 1941, and almost irreplacable . That's why an aircraft that could not survive any damage (the TIE fighter of the real world....) was hardly in phase with the Japanese training regiment.

(Of course, as I mentionned, fighting any kind of naval with the United States was a pretty much doomed concept from the start, considering the utterly insane amount of money the US could throw at any problems. Including building two fake carriers to train pilots for landing on them

Not far from where I live was a seaplane base during WWII. In addition to training seaplane pilots, it was used for ditching survival schools - there is a very large swampy/lake/riverine area which in summer time is more or less half jungle and half open water. They would drop all the pilots off at pre determined (but as far as the pilots could tell random) points in a small boat and leave them for a little while, and at the end of the process they would be picked up. Usually they were dropped off somewhere in the water and had to swim a distance to the nearest landish area. Then they would have to start a fire, set up a signal apparatus, set traps and snares, etc. The idea was to train them up for operations in the Pacific where they were liable to get shot down in/near somewhat similar terrain and weather conditions. Actual jumping out of planes in this area wasn't practiced as the risk of hitting trees was too great for training purposes (the area is VERY heavily wooded where it's not open water)
 

Andre Bolkonsky

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Not far from where I live was a seaplane base during WWII. In addition to training seaplane pilots, it was used for ditching survival schools - there is a very large swampy/lake/riverine area which in summer time is more or less half jungle and half open water. They would drop all the pilots off at pre determined (but as far as the pilots could tell random) points in a small boat and leave them for a little while, and at the end of the process they would be picked up. Usually they were dropped off somewhere in the water and had to swim a distance to the nearest landish area. Then they would have to start a fire, set up a signal apparatus, set traps and snares, etc. The idea was to train them up for operations in the Pacific where they were liable to get shot down in/near somewhat similar terrain and weather conditions. Actual jumping out of planes in this area wasn't practiced as the risk of hitting trees was too great for training purposes (the area is VERY heavily wooded where it's not open water)

Just ask John Lafitte.
 

The Super Pope

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While this discussion is mostly regarding the Pacific, I would point out that in the Mediterranean battleships were exactly at their most useful and effective, and for Britain, France and Italy, it made sense to build and use them there. Aircraft carriers were not war-winning weapons in that theatre due to its geography, which was rather more suitable for battleships. Most battleship engagements in WWII were in the Med.