Would you consider a gypsy culture group to be a bad idea?

[Eldath]

So according to wikipedia, gypsies were present in Europe in the 12th century, as migrants from the East.
Much like jews, they could have events popping up volunteering their skills as entertainers/bards/spymasters/Court Jesters/Medicine men and women. Unlike jews however, their religion could either be Hinduism or maybe they could have their own religion, that they could convert from.

Do any of you think this might be a fun/good idea and if so what events do you think could pop up?
I personally really like the idea of building a kingdom with gypsy culture, it's rather similar to converting The British Isles to Ashkenazi culture, because those guys don't normally have a single county that they occupy as a majority and it gives me a feeling of accomplishment to play this way.

I think it would be fun and very interesting to have gypsy related events such as tarot card-reading for your ruler, or when you are looking for a court doctor, you could find a wise old gypsy medicine woman.

Anyways, what do you guys think?

 

[SigurdStormhand]

It might be a good idea but it's a very sensitive subject, more so than our discussion of Vlachs a few weeks ago.

 

[neutrondecay]

It might be a good idea but it's a very sensitive subject, more so than our discussion of Vlachs a few weeks ago.

I agree. It might be best, at least, to refer to them as Roma. I personally wouldn't mind, although obviously it's harder to justify a culture which holds no provinces.

nd

 

[Rags17]

I actually made up a Romani culture group years ago as part of a Landless mod. I created name lists, dynasties and the culture entry and vetted them all for historical discrpenacies (eg dynasty names related to boilermaking or whatever).

PM if you'd like a copy.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

This flags up one of the issues right away. When I was younger it was spelled "Romany" to distinguish Roma from "Romani" which is the collective name for A: Classical Romans and B: Modern Romanians.

ehhhh.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

I'd love it. There are multiple things that have to be figured out though. The name of the culture and the implementation need to not be offensive. I've read some ideas about them coming from Northern India/Eastern Afghanistan. It'd be interesting to have maybe a province over there with that culture as well.

 

[Semigall]

I'm all for having more cultures, especially if they have some unique features.

 

[Wakizashi]

It would make for some interesting characters and the like, that's for sure.

 

[klopkr]

Romani would be an excellent inclusion and they actually moved around a bit during the games time frame.

 

[WomboCombo]

I agree. It might be best, at least, to refer to them as Roma. I personally wouldn't mind, although obviously it's harder to justify a culture which holds no provinces.

nd

There are plenty of cultures that don't hold provinces depending on start times (the meme animals, Roman, Outremer, Nahua, Sephardi and Ashkenazi the whole game, for starters)

 

[Truewhit]

As much as I love the idea I feel like it whould be best depicted through events only.

 

[Rags17]

I played with Romani being another “landless” culture type that I created solely so I could create custom job actions, Councilor titles and GUI. I made them allowable via random appearance only which makes sense to me, I can’t see them ever starting with anything but I would love to land them and grow an entire realm out of thin air out of them, kind of like the above mentioned Romans etc.

Ideally they should have their own culture specific bonuses and limitations, That would make them fun to play.

 

[fr-rein]

I actually like the idea.

I think that, like in similar case with Jews, culture name could be "Roma" and the generally referred name "Gypsy". It should be a fine compromise between a correct name and the one which is commonly referred - like with Ashkenazi/Sephard and Jew.

You can set their appearance to random, early, late, historical, similar to other nomads.

They would be usually landless, sure. But united in titular gypsy titles. Mostly playing a secondary role, like Jews, they would provide us a lot of increase in entertainment events, introduce tarot cards, some more carousing, exotics and such.

Lastly, it can be a way to introduce landless play. As a gypsy baron, you could embark on an epic quest of uniting gypsy tribes through intrigue, diplomacy and wits only. Imagine an achievement of becoming a titular Gypsy Emperor (and I mean it, no offense intended) with 0 military conquest.

 

[TheDungen]

First of this is a game about nobles, secondly gypsy is derogatory, thirdly there are a number of groups who have been called gypsies throughout European history. fourth paradox please don't ban me for using the word gypsy, it was in context.

 

[jumbi]

I think that, like in similar case with Jews, culture name could be "Roma" and the generally referred name "Gypsy". It should be a fine compromise between a correct name and the one which is commonly referred - like with Ashkenazi/Sephard and Jew.

Judaism is a religion, whereas Ashkenazi and Sephardi are cultures. There is no mechanism that allows for a single culture to be referred to by two different names.

 

[fr-rein]

First of this is a game about nobles, secondly gypsy is derogatory, thirdly there are a number of groups who have been called gypsies throughout European history. fourth paradox please don't ban me for using the word gypsy, it was in context.

1) No, we have a lot of specific groups which are not nobles. Even playable ones.
2) I don't know the issue about name, but Roma name usage doesn't change the idea. Different name doesn't change topic.
3) Yes, and? It is a legend, so we fit them together, like in case with Jewish advisors.
4) I think no one here is calling them that in context of immigration to Byzantine or calling crusade on them.

 

[TheDungen]

No, we have a lot of specific groups which are not nobles. Even playable ones.

People of power at any rate which the gypsies are not and have never been.

Yes, and? It is a legend, so we fit them together, like in case with Jewish advisors.

I guess I hold the game to a higher standard than that. And the jews are subdivided.

You could have a few event relating to their persecution like you have with jews but that's essentially it. Even the jews only get a few random courtiers and that makes no sense for the gypsies since they would not have been welcommed at any court in this era.

 

[nightgerbil]

did my thoughtful post and the equally thoughtful replies just get deleted by the moderaters?

edit it seems they did. Can I appeal this or at least ask why?

 

[Greene]

People of power at any rate which the gypsies are not and have never been.

Neither have the Jews, but as a community/minority group they helped shape European Medieval society. They were part of it just like the Roma people and the purpose of adding Roma culture is simply to add flavour.

 

[TheDungen]

Neither have the Jews, but as a community/minority group they helped shape European Medieval society. They were part of it just like the Roma people and the purpose of adding Roma culture is simply to add flavour.

Eh yeah they have, there were jewish vizirs who more or less ruled muslim kingdoms in hispania