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MobiusTwo

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The question is in the title. I've always found it a little odd that Victoria II only has two start dates - 1836 and 1861. Between these two start dates, an overwhelming majority seem to prefer the former, since it gives you more time to build up your empire, and often your technology and overall situation is far better by 1861 if you start in 1836. The 1861 start date seems to really only be good if you want to play as independent Romania, the Confederate States, or if you're feeling very brave, the Heavenly Kingdom. 1861 also didn't get much love in the form of historical attention to detail - for example, France is a republican, presidential dictatorship instead of the Second French Empire under Napoleon III.

Despite the apparent lack of interest in 1861 on the part of the playerbase and even the developers, I always wondered why we didn't also get a late game start date that would allow us to experience the buildup to WWI or WWI itself. I always say that I bought Victoria II to play through WWI, but ironically stayed for the nineteenth century, which contains the real meat of the game. Still, I feel a late game start date would have been nice. The way I see it, there would be potential for four potential late-game start dates:

  • April 21, 1898: Would allow players to play through the Spanish-American War, with the Second Boer War and the Boxer Rebellion on the verge of breaking out.
  • January 1, 1900: A nice round start date in the middle of the Boxer Rebellion, with the coming death of Queen Victoria signaling the end of an era. Perhaps you can alter history and prevent or change the outcome of the 1904-1905 Russo-Japanese War as well.
  • January 1, 1906: Would give players the last thirty years of the game, which seems appropriate for a late-game scenario. This start date could be centered around the Balkans, whose numerous wars and crisis would create ample opportunity for a slightly-early WWI. Some flashpoint moments include the Austrian annexation of Bosnia in 1908 and the 1912-1913 Balkan Wars.
  • July 28th, 1914: And here's the WWI start date I've seen a few players clamor for. Would you preserve history by forcing an Entente victory, or change the entire trajectory of the modern world with a triumphant Central Powers?

Obviously, most of this discussion would be more pertinent to the elusive Victoria III, but we can still talk about it in the context of Victoria II. I'm curious to learn how others feel about this issue.
 

Amtep

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I'm thinking about this in practical Vic2 terms, because it's surely possible to make a mod for this :)

Of those four I'd prefer the 1906 date, to give some time to build up to the war without diverging from history too much. But the 1898 date would be more interesting if you don't just want to replay WW1.

I guess one thing that's missing from Vic2 is the rapid teching up during the World Wars. During 1914-1918 you can research maybe one tech? Especially if you start with an unoptimized country, like you'd get with a 1914 start date. Maybe a mod could address that too.
 
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Kovax

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I think Amtep points out one of the major flaws with the V2 late game. By the time you get to the 20th Century, you've already finished most of the meat of the game, and from there on out it's just a matter of riding out the Communist and Fascist revolts until 1936. I suspect that most players, like myself, tend to lose interest in the campaigns by the historical WWI start date. Unless the game is heavily rebalanced and adjusted for that timeframe, it seems like a "not fun" idea to start just before WWI.

Worse, V2 really doesn't handle 20th Century warfare well. It really needs a different combat system.
 
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gustavotoniato

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In theory, yes, it would be nice to simulate this late 19th century, but the game needs some adjustments for that. Since the most interesting part that is the economic management is a long-term job.
 

Cereal

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I think 1900 would be the best start date. It's not only a nice, round number. but it also gives the player enough time to alter history if they so choose, or go historical if not. It won't be too crazy. If I was to choose one it would be that. If not 1900 then 1890. I feel like a 1906 start date would be better as 1910 instead. I just feel like 1906 is a bad middle ground between when you can build up and alter history and when you want a historical game.
 

EUnderhill

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I'd prefer a timespan starting with the end of the Liberal Revolution (1849?) to the triggering of a Great War starting anytime after 1905.
 

RELee

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Personally I would not like to see a very late game start. The 1861 start on V2 did not deliver any satisfaction to be honest.
 

EUnderhill

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Personally I would not like to see a very late game start. The 1861 start on V2 did not deliver any satisfaction to be honest.
Late starts would interest me IF there were substantial under-the-hood changes specific to the era. I would love a WWI scenario; just not one with 1836 (or 1936) mechanics.
 

Delterius

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I wouldn't care for it within the context of Victoria 2. The moment to moment gameplay isn't that riveting. You start in 1914 and play as the german empire, which means you'll just bait the french and the russians into attacking an entrenched mountain pass and then they all die and you have to micro the occupation. Even if Victoria 3's war game is smoother, I feel that a sequel would stay true to the original and, therefore, keep most of your decisions long term. Victoria 2 was about curating your population, opportunity seeking in the colonial theaters and choosing the order of your tech development. Sure, you'll probably accomplish your objectives up to 50 years prior to the game's ending and grow bored over time, but that sure beats the 300 years mark of Europa Universalis 4.
 
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