would whales be a relevant trade good to add

[estile606]

It has struck me recently that whaling existed during eu4's timeframe, and as the devs seem to be willing to add new trade goods, they might be an interesting thing to add for some more flavor.
of course, whaling could be represented by the fish already present in the game, and one more trade good might not be worth the effort.
Just wondering what people would think of adding a whales tradegood, and associated flavor and pricing events

 

[Sfan]

Whale is part of fish, as Olive Oil is part of Wine for instance. But you're free to debate it in the Suggestion Forum.

 

[bestbrian]

Ivory includes Whales, Walruses, and such.

 

[Nirmara]

Definitively. Products from whales had a decent value and can't be reduced to fish or ivory so it would make sense adding it to the game as a mid-tier trade good. It would also be a nice way to make polar coastal provinces worth colonizing from an economical point of view.

 

[sesn]

What provinces would it apply to though? The thing is with waling that the actual ports where the profits would end up in are far away from the the whaling grounds and the islands commonly known as whaler bases dont have the economic relevance to include them as the profits flow to the European harbours. Of the top of my head I could think of the Dutch, England and to some degree the northern german Ports, i.e Hamburg together with North-East America (Whats about Norway in this period?) as typical home ports. Hamburg, Amsterdam, Bremen? and a good chunk of England and North America already produce fish.

 

[3ishop]

Ivory includes Whales, Walruses, and such.

If you get ivory while colonising the coast of Russia or Greenland it is, otherwise not really counted.

I don't think it should be it's own resource but I do think it should be a modifier for fish. Got similar suggestions in my thread in sig.

 

[estile606]

What provinces would it apply to though? The thing is with waling that the actual ports where the profits would end up in are far away from the the whaling grounds and the islands commonly known as whaler bases dont have the economic relevance to include them as the profits flow to the European harbours. Of the top of my head I could think of the Dutch, England and to some degree the northern german Ports, i.e Hamburg together with North-East America (Whats about Norway in this period?) as typical home ports. Hamburg, Amsterdam, Bremen? and a good chunk of England and North America already produce fish.

Hmm, that is a good point, if whales were valuable, they would add wealth to the wrong provinces or require removing the existing trade goods from valuable provinces...

This is getting a little bit away from just adding whales as a trade good, but what then about adding something like trade goods to ocean provinces that border land, which could be whales, major fisheries like cod, ect, that one acquires based on what percentage of the coastal provinces bordering that sea tile one has, and the autonomy there?
would even mean that for whales, one could use colonizable lands and islands as bases to get at the whales...

 

[Jorlaan]

Maybe a slight increase to the value of fish could be considered at some point in the game to factor in the growing whale trade. However this would be problematic as many places that produce fish do NOT have access to whales.
A decent idea to kick around but in the end I'd say it wouldn't really fit.

 

[zeluis100000]

Maybe. What about coal, sulfur, olive oil, silver, wood, gunpowder...?

 

[vfmikey]

A way back I made a small mod for myself with new trade goods, I included whales

I have also included Oxen (so livestock in 1.23), Amber (Gems), Silver and Glass.

I added whales primarily to the North Sea area, North East Atlantic Coast, Pacific Coast, Japan and South Africa, but I didn't do that much research.

 

[Zalmoxis]

Hmm, that is a good point, if whales were valuable, they would add wealth to the wrong provinces or require removing the existing trade goods from valuable provinces...

This is getting a little bit away from just adding whales as a trade good, but what then about adding something like trade goods to ocean provinces that border land, which could be whales, major fisheries like cod, ect, that one acquires based on what percentage of the coastal provinces bordering that sea tile one has, and the autonomy there?
would even mean that for whales, one could use colonizable lands and islands as bases to get at the whales...

It could be a function of light ships, like, a 'whale hunt' mission where they base from the coastal province you select the mission from. Or hell, maybe a function of transports instead, so you can do something with them other than transporting troops, so you can have them hunt whales instead of getting mothballed if you wanted.

 

[Roki_09]

I dont think there were so many provinces where whaling was the main trade good... maybe small islands?

 

[bestbrian]

Ivory 15

• ×0 if:
  • Continent is not Asia continent
  • Continent is not Africa continent
  • Area is not Subarctic Islands area (from walruses)
  • Area is not Greenland area

• ×0 if:
  • Terrain is not jungle
  • Terrain is not savannah
  • Terrain is not glacier

• ×0 if:
  • Any of the following is true:
    • Region is West Siberia region
    • Region is East Siberia region
    • Region is Manchuria region
    • Region is Central Asia region
    • Region is South Africa region

• ×0.5 if:
  • Region is Malaya region
  • Region is Moluccas region
  • Region is Indonesia region

• ×1.25 if:
  • Terrain is jungle
  • Terrain is savannah

From the Wiki on the trade good probability in colonies. Notice the bit on Walruses.

 

[EmperorUesugi]

What provinces would it apply to though? The thing is with waling that the actual ports where the profits would end up in are far away from the the whaling grounds and the islands commonly known as whaler bases dont have the economic relevance to include them as the profits flow to the European harbours. Of the top of my head I could think of the Dutch, England and to some degree the northern german Ports, i.e Hamburg together with North-East America (Whats about Norway in this period?) as typical home ports. Hamburg, Amsterdam, Bremen? and a good chunk of England and North America already produce fish.

In the late 90s, international restrictions were put in place to to protect the whale populations. The 2 biggest objectors were Japan and Norway, who have strong traditions in whaling. The Inuit people of Greenland, Alaska and SIberia depended on it for survival and trading. This would be a viable trade good for Arctic regions. A lot of documentaries I've watched have shown that cold Arctic waters are very important sources of food for marine wildlife, hence the strong whaling traditions in these parts. Japanese whalers would operate around the Ainu and Kamchatka waters I believe.

 

[Agoria]

What provinces would it apply to though? The thing is with waling that the actual ports where the profits would end up in are far away from the the whaling grounds and the islands commonly known as whaler bases dont have the economic relevance to include them as the profits flow to the European harbours. Of the top of my head I could think of the Dutch, England and to some degree the northern german Ports, i.e Hamburg together with North-East America (Whats about Norway in this period?) as typical home ports. Hamburg, Amsterdam, Bremen? and a good chunk of England and North America already produce fish.

The main thing is that whales were not only fished by local fishermen. Navarra and Portugal are good examples.

 

[Nirmara]

The main thing is that whales were not only fished by local fishermen. Navarra and Portugal are good examples.

Sailing for a very long time was generally not an option during Eu4 time frame due to travel speed, winds conditions, limited supplies, etc. This meant that ships needed friendly harbors to sustain themselves during long trips (including whales hunting trips). Controlling friendly ports therefore played an important role.

For example, after the 7 years wars, France ceded all of Nouvelle-France (French Canada) to Britain, but kept St-Pierre and Miquelon for fishing reasons. The question of fishing rights was even in the treaty they signed.

Therefore, having whales in a few arctic provinces, pacific islands and maybe a few province on the American East-coast would make sense.

There is no need to add a lot of provinces with whales. In fast, I would argue that it's better to have it as a rare trade good (in term of number of provinces) and to give it a nice strategic modifier (probably naval related).

 

[estile606]

perhaps rather than changing a lot of province trade goods, some of the whales could come from new colonizable provinces carved out of current wasteland area. For example, Spitsbergen in svalbard was used a whaling base, and there is a wasteland that, unless i am mistaken, looks like svalbard , at the top of the map. The same goes for Jan Mayen, though I dont think that is on the map ATM. There are other colonizable lands where it could be made a possible trade good, maybe south georgia? lands like that would get rid of all the need for changing trade goods, but it could alleviate some of it.