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PhilipeDeRuyter

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Currently I'm playing a game as Ottomans, it's the early 1500s. I had some success early game but now Austria has started invading me, and I keep getting destroyed. They have land tech 16, I'm at 11. They basically can take any of my provinces in less than a month and can give me a beating even if I out number them three to one. Is it possible to recover from this, or should I start over? What are some startegies that I can use to avoid these sorts of situations in the future?


View attachment save games.7z
 

Demonliver

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Here is what should be done in my opinion. Do in order shown. This is what I did in the 1511 save you could start in the 1508 save and do the basic stuff I listed below to help you in readiness for the possible war with Austria.
-Start in 1511 save
-Optional:>>End war with Goldhord (demand they concede defeat) Since Goldhord is weak and basically destroyed you shouldn't have to worry about them fighting back. (recommend you atleast get the Cot in Astrakhan( you have a colony there that is almost a city)
-End war with Knights (white peace)
-Get stability above negative value (+0 or higher)
-Formalize scales and weights in Thrace (gives needed bonuses to income!)
-Under religion tab do the two decisions available, will help greatly with limiting revolts
-Eliminate some of your troops to lower maintenance cost (currently 15ish over, you should have 57 regiments no more unless you can support them)
-Spend the money to become defender of the faith! Gives .50 moral to troops and other bonuses
-Use your navy to destroy the Austrians
-Use cultural tradition to get better stability adviser (I got a level 4)
-Recruit a General and place in largest army
-Focus on taking out one Austrian army at a time until destroyed. Since Austria is HRE it will be hard.
-Once stability is above -1. Focus all research on land
-You need more Cavalry in your army. You need a good ratio of infantry and cavalry along with one or two cannons. This will help greatly. Like an 8 infantry, 6 cavalry, 2 cannons.
-Once land tech reaches 13. Try to get your units to change to the superior units. I can suggest having your units move to your eastern lands and keep Austria away by using your boats to keep them from crossing the water.(make sure you let your units moral recover after unit change!)
-If you lost your western lands to sieges then have your army on the east. And let a few Austrians pass over the straight then destroy them while blocking most of the army from reinforcing with your navy. (It is what the AI does, use this tactic well) Example, Austrian army in Thrace moves to Bursa. You allow them to move. Then your navy stops any other armies from crossing while you destroy the 20k Austrian army in Bursa (they have no retreat due to navy and no reinforcements)
-Then if you can try to get peace as soon as you can from Austria

I wasn't able to succeed as many countries Dowed me and I started to crumble when I loaded your save. But, it is possible to win (just hard)

Next time you play the Ottomans I suggest you keep good relations with the Mamalukes Royal marriage and try to get a PU. Since, you are supposed to conquer Egypt in the first place might as well work on it
Focus on limiting your inflation; I never go above 2 inflation. Also, for your first national idea it should be military drill. Austria has +1 on you since they have it and you don't.
Focus on limiting the amount of infamy you take also. It makes it harder to get merchants out and having merchants in COT's increase income greatly and the more income leads to more towards research.

--Edit: On my second Session I was able to get a great general, defender of faith, and a moral adviser and destroy enough Austrian armies and was able to get peace with only loosing Dulkadir as a vassal in the peace deal. (you can conquest them again soon)

Good luck!!
Demonliver
 
Last edited:

cywang86

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Couple of things on top of what demon mentioned.

1. Your first slider move as Ottoman should always go toward narrowminded. Because with a theologian, you can now activate two religious decisions.
One reduces stab cost by 5%, and increases yearly missionary by 0.5 but increase missionary cost by 6%.
The other reduces missionary cost by 4%, and increases yearly missionary by another 0.5, at the cost of +1 revolt risk.

These two will counter your future innovative moves, and bring you enough missionaries to convert your orthodox provinces.

2. NEVER let your infamy go above 10 unless you absolutely have to, especially when you're ready to westernize.

3. Venice needs to die as early as possible. I tend to try and annex him in two wars after building enough cogs, and release him as a vassal. He's the greatest fodder against HRE people, as you'll see several doom stacks trying to get to Venice that's being stopped by your 1 cog, and you won't suffer any WE due to occupation.

4. Cavalry Calvary Cavalry. Your cavalry out ranks western ones till mid 1500s, if you haven't westernized yet by then. When you have more regiments than the enemy army, a maximum of 4 cavalry will do free damage against him, called flanking. (assuming there aren't more than 30 regiments already) Which brings up the other problem for you.

The maximum width of a battle field is 30. When the enemy army has 25, it won't matter if you outnumber them 3:1. Only 25+maximum of 4 calvaries will be able to do damage to them at a time. And trust me, the AI battle system is really bad at rotating regiments in and out.
What does matter is that you can have 3 army stacks of 25 infantry and 1 with 4 cavalries, and rotate your infamy army stacks. It'll allow 2 of your infantry army to regenerate number and morale while your 1 infantry/cav army are doing damage/taking a beating.

I generally do army stacks of multiples of 2 inf 1 cav, because it's much easier to manage with the split stack function.

3. As Ottoman, you're almost always going to lag behind in tech. It's generally a good idea to focus on just government and land tech until you're westernized. Which does make defender of faith a good idea as the negatives won't affect you as much.

4. Legitimacy advisor is bad, unless you're mass PUing the Muslim nations (like you should to strive for from the start of the game).
PU is the most powerful tool for Ottoman, because nearly every Muslim nation west of Timurid is of Ottoman's culture group. Meaning. That means when you do inherit those nations, you automatically receive free cores and preserve all buildings. Assuming Castile hasn't done enough damage, you should get a bunch of provinces with full t1 buildings.
With those nations under PU, it also prevents Castile from blobbing the entire northern Africa, cause you'll automatically become war leader, which prevents some stupid territory loss.

5. You need a diplomat and an embassy. They increases your limited infamy reduction, which you need desperately if you wish to expand through war.

6. What did you do to your infamy! With my count you only had to spend 14 infamy + w/e Georgia had (assuming you annex instead of colonize GH land). Don't ever spend more than 2 infamy per province, especially when you need just 1 against those provinces with Holy War CB.

7. Military Drill. You need this NI to survive. Against Timurid, GH, and eventually Bohemia/Austria. Once you've gotten enough stability, swap out National Conscript with MD.

8. Inflation. Going above 5 is frowned upon by everyone, and never go above 10 unless you're Horde or absolutely need to to expand as an OPM/2PM. Don't mint more than you can recover. If you have to, build galley stead of carraks to have your naval superiority.

These are some of the long term and internal things that you've missed out on, so onto how you can beat Austria.

1. Get Venice off your back.

2. Get a new general, you're sitting at 90ish army tradition!

3. The AI is really really bad at stack management. After the first siege or two, it'll generally split them all up into stacks of 12~25 to carpet your provinces. That's your time to gobble them up one by one.

At the current tech level, your Azab Infantry is only slightly worse than Austria's unit of choice, while your cavalry is vastly superior to his. Follow the flanking mechanic, and you should be able to eat any of his stacks below 20.

4. Have 2 armies rotating in/out if necessary.

5. If 4 still didn't work, consider using bait and reinforce. Use a small stack on a favorable terrain to lure the AI over, then throw your bigger stack in, and retreat your small stack. If the AI moves to engage you, they may get river crossing and terrain penalty, which greatly increases your odd. Oltenia and Serbia are both idea locations.

6. If needed, with your navy loose due to no Venice threat, use your cogs and send them to Austria's back and distract his forces.

The game is salvagable at the 1508 save, but at this point, I would advise you to pick up what you've learned with this playthrough and start over due to the ridiculous amount of infamy + western influence.
 

cywang86

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Some more tricks for westernization and PU.

If you have 5 or 6 star advisors, sometimes events that increase 2 stab or 10 prestige plus w/e the advisor is specialize in will pop up. That's usually my cue to press the westernize button, as I can instantly recover 2 stability, saving me at least an year worth of effort.

Temples, temples, temples. They should be your first priority, specially when you don't have +3 stability yet.

For PU, there are four ways to achieve it.

One is Fabricate Claim spy option at enemy capital. It's only available when their heir has a weak claim. Then with that as a CB, you can establish PU with 80~90 warscore.
The other is peaceful, but you have to be really luck. Once you have a royal marriage setup, when the target monarch dies without an heir you have a chance to achieve a PU. Though you have no control over it.
The last two involve Claim Throne. From the notification icons up top, there's sometimes a succession crisis notification due to target nation not having an heir. If you setup a royal marrage with those nations, you can use the Claim Throne diplomatic option if you have a higher prestige than them. Doing so will cost you legitimacy and reduce relation on all countries you have a royal marriage with.

After that, you can either wait until their king dies without an heir for an automatic PU (if there's no other nation who's claimed their throne, or you'll have to fight for it), or go to war like Fabricate Claim.
Note that going to war against royal marriage'd nation will cost you one stability, so I generally cancel the royal marriage for the stab hit before using the war approach, so further Claim Throne won't undo my future bribes.

After you've setup a PU, immediately bribe your relation back above 0, or once your king dies, the PU will be broken and you have to go to war to set it back up.
Now just sit back and wait until your king dies, which will either end the PU, continue the PU, or you inherit all provinces (with cores if both are in the same culture group).

The chance is somewhat random, but does depend on diplomacy skill, prestige, trust, relative size on army and economy, infamy, and some luck.
 

Ricox

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Also - always consider the possibility of using "Scorch Earth", you'll win the war most of the times before half the time of the scorched earth has gone thru, but the time it did take effect - it'd have devastating effect. Plus, if you're not doing good as Ottomans, it might be good to just scorch everything in Greece & Balkans and retreat back to Turkey and let the enemy die (I haven't seen your savefile, so I don't know how many provinces those are, but don't mass-scorch-earth if it's a ton of land, because then you'll kill yourself economically), while letting some weakened stacks attack Turkey.

The AI, sadly, is pretty horrible when it comes to the strategical thinking level with its armies. Try to keep your armies close, but not too close, to pick off the armies that are weaker & have been split (ex. for sieges). Always kill enemy armies before occupying their land (if you do get to it) (otherwise the remaining armies will keep re-sieging occupied provinces, or siege your provinces, or pick off your sieging troops, better to destroy all their armies then split all your armies to cover every single enemy province, so you auto-kill any new regiments and don't have any strong armies picking off your siegers).