Worst Political Blunders and Bravest Political Sacrifices

[keynes2.0]

Also, Valentinian III murdering Flavius Aetius,

Yeah it's not often that you find a loyal military genius who's capable of showing restraint when necessary instead of showing off and also comes with a huge personal army. It's even more rare for that to happen in your nations greatest moment of need ever.

 

[Druplesnubb]

I'm gonna go with the governor of the city of Otrar who arrested Genghis' trade caravan. When Genghis sent three envoys to the Shah of Khwarezm himself to ask for the release of the caravan the shah shaved two of the envoys and beheaded the third. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[joak]

I would rather say that Alexander's mistake was to not point out a definite heir.

Hard to imagine that would have changed anything at all. There was no inherent legitimacy to his empire to pass on, it was all based on personal talent. The only way to settle who his true "heir" was, was to fight.

 

[Fornadan]

Argead succession had never been particularly well defined and often resulted in civil war. The difference from previous such occasions was that there weren't really any obvious candidates for the throne since Alexander had killed all potential rivals at the start of his reign and he had not yet adult sons when he died

 

[Lord Finnish]

Hard to imagine that would have changed anything at all. There was no inherent legitimacy to his empire to pass on, it was all based on personal talent. The only way to settle who his true "heir" was, was to fight.

Perhaps it would have been a right move to divide the realm outright. Ptolemy gets Egypt, Seleukos gets Persia, so on. Perhaps that would have done at least something to stop the constant warring at least in the early years. But maybe I'm underestimating the Diadochis' greed.

 

[Avernite]

Perhaps it would have been a right move to divide the realm outright. Ptolemy gets Egypt, Seleukos gets Persia, so on. Perhaps that would have done at least something to stop the constant warring at least in the early years. But maybe I'm underestimating the Diadochis' greed.

Well, Alexander had just shown you could conquer the whole lot of it, so it's no surprise others wanted to try.

Had Alexander lived to a ripe old age with a single, at least mostly talented, son, it might have been different (the Greek cities might have spun off, and various regions would have only nominally sworn fealty eventually) - but with no single strong heir and multiple decent but zero godlike generals the end-result was rather unsurprising.

 

[Bonafide]

Still Alexander's untimely and early death created an unnecessarily big conflict that, as suggested, could've been averted somewhat if he had been clearer with successors and successor states. But seeing as he died rather unexpectedly it was just a natural consequence for the empire to be crushed by internal struggles.

 

[Teutonic_Thrash]

Perhaps it would have been a right move to divide the realm outright. Ptolemy gets Egypt, Seleukos gets Persia, so on. Perhaps that would have done at least something to stop the constant warring at least in the early years. But maybe I'm underestimating the Diadochis' greed.

They did that. Twice. They still squabbled among themselves.

 

[Fornadan]

Perhaps it would have been a right move to divide the realm outright. Ptolemy gets Egypt, Seleukos gets Persia, so on. Perhaps that would have done at least something to stop the constant warring at least in the early years. But maybe I'm underestimating the Diadochis' greed.

Too many highly talented and ambitious noblemen with easy access to veteran soldiers and all the accumulated hoards of the Achamenids to spend. Someone will always feel short-shifted

Seleukos wasn't even a contender until 321

 

[NapoleonComple]

Sounds like the only way to ensure control of the empire is to make sure someone somehow ends up in supreme control of both the treasury and the largest part of the army.

 

[Fornadan]

maybe so, but the army had already been divided at the time of Alexander's death, with Krateros in Kilikia with a large force of veterans (where he would also had had access to the seemingly bottomless treasury at Kyinda)

 

[Jolt]

Still Alexander's untimely and early death created an unnecessarily big conflict that, as suggested, could've been averted somewhat if he had been clearer with successors and successor states. But seeing as he died rather unexpectedly it was just a natural consequence for the empire to be crushed by internal struggles.

The formulated plan at the beginning was pretty sound. Perdiccas was one of the few generals of the royal family. He would act as regent for the unborn child of Alexander, who would be the successor in case it was male, otherwise, Alexander's brother would assume the throne. Perdiccas would eventually marry Alexander's sister and murder Alexander's son, wife and brother, and secure himself his Empire.

 

[Drakken]

Sounds like the only way to ensure control of the empire is to make sure someone somehow ends up in supreme control of both the treasury and the largest part of the army.

Add to that Alexander's body.

 

[Drakken]

The formulated plan at the beginning was pretty sound. Perdiccas was one of the few generals of the royal family. He would act as regent for the unborn child of Alexander, who would be the successor in case it was male, otherwise, Alexander's brother would assume the throne. Perdiccas would eventually marry Alexander's sister and murder Alexander's son, wife and brother, and secure himself his Empire.

Uh, aren't you getting mixed up with Cassander?

Perdiccas was indeed the strongest, but also one of the stupidest contenders for Alexander's empire. He lost all his assets, one by one, and was one of the first pretenders to be wacked in the Diadochi war, murdered by his own army no less. Everyone turned on him because was the biggest threat, but also the least politically able of the bunch.

 

[Fornadan]

Considering Perdiccas' long service under Alexander and the promotions he received in the king's service, I think it's safe to assume that he was not at all stupid. He was not Alexander though, and could not call upon the same ties of loyalty the king could

 

[Victor1234]

Considering Perdiccas' long service under Alexander and the promotions he received in the king's service, I think it's safe to assume that he was not at all stupid. He was not Alexander though, and could not call upon the same ties of loyalty the king could

Not stupid, but there's no denying that Perdiccas had nearly every advantage in the beginning and blew it one by one as mentioned above.

When Alexander died, he had:

A) The core of the army
B) The veteran bodyguard corps (infantry and cavalry)
C) Alexander's body
D) The treasury
E) Physically at the core of the Empire
F) Some form of legitimacy from being the regent/supposedly the one Alexander gave his ring to

He ended up losing all of these, piece by piece, only to be murdered by his own ambitious officers after having made enemies of almost everyone and with really having only gotten rid of one rival at the start.

As a sidebar/plug, I really like this period and heavily recommend Marshals of Alexander's Empire - Waldemar Heckel. It made understanding the individuals involved much easier and especially made it easier for me to keep the Cleitus' distinct (the Black and the White!)

It even mentions available information about more obscure officers, like (I wish I had the book here to write it out...) the top 3 winners of the 'martial skills' contest held by the army just after the Babylonian campaign ended, before they went to northern Iran/India, etc.

 

[darthfanta]

One of the worst political blunders would be the French Revolution.The fact it happened was a mistake in itself. The events leading up to the revolution was just downright laughable, from the report published by Necker the Con-Man to Louis feud with his nobles to raise their tax.

 

[Calad]

Justa Grata Honoria, how to fuck your brothers realm the best way as possible.

To avoid marriage she begged help from Attila the Hun and thus Attila attacked against Western Rome. Must have had sweet family talk after her letter.

 

[thedarkendstar]

I would rather say that Alexander's mistake was to not point out a definite heir.

He did The heir was the strongest :ninja:

 

[Yakman]

Bravest political sacrifice? I think a nod at least should go Anwar Sadat making peace with Israel.

Worst political blunder? Richard Nixon's "enemies list" and secret campaign against his political opponents (real and otherwise)