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mdw1985

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Key thing I took from the stream:

Game AI is not ready.

Granted AI can alway be improved, but having Finland steam roll northern Soviet Union is concerning. I would assume/hope the AI would start moving divisions to borders where troops are posted. We are not talking 36, but 40. Troops were there for years.

On a good note, game looks beautifull. Love all the features. Look foward to Q2 2016 release.

From design aspects, the game looks gorgeous!!! I really really like it, especially the paintings of the politicians and the equipment. I'm thinking of Q2 as well at the moment. Rather have a clever AI and a Q2 release, than a passive AI and a Q1 release. But i really would appreciate it, if the devs could brighten this up a bit concerning the AI.
 
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LostinSpice

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Perhaps we should in all fairness allow the devs explain and even stop showing us the game until it is working better and nearer beta. We can only comment on what we see and everyone has waited soooooo long for this game, so any negative viewings are going to have a major impact on the community. Come on Paradox, damage limitation! Make us happy again!
 
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D3m0

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We can say for sure that the German, Polish, Nationalist and Republican Spanish AI did not move units at all, since we've seen the AI being active all the time before there was obviously some bug or current WIP state in the version they used. The Soviet AI probably only became somewhat active as a reaction to the player actions once the war started.
Since the WWW videos seems to use very new builds and the game being in development with new builds being probably released every other day a bug like this sneaking into the game shouldn't surprise anyone.
 
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mdw1985

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Perhaps we should in all fairness allow the devs explain and even stop showing us the game until it is working better and nearer beta. We can only comment on what we see and everyone has waited soooooo long for this game, so any negative viewings are going to have a major impact on the community. Come on Paradox, damage limitation! Make us happy again!

+1 :)
 

Will Steel

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That anime art in the game looks amazing. It means I'll be able to create a Code Geass mod complete with portraits, finally.
 
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mdw1985

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Perhaps the AI doesn't like committing new/ forming divisions into combat at the moment. From the video the majority of the Russian icons had red stats. Just a thought?

It would be a cool thing for me, if they would just explain, how development is at the moment and the actual status of the game in the next dd instead of explaining sub warfare, japan or other game features...
 
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People need to take a step back and calm down a bit here. The game is 3-6 months most likely from release. There are going to be bugs and balance issues. Thats the point of beta (whether its in it currently or not).

As we know from the various froozen army bugs in EU4 that crop up from time to time making a little change o part of the system can have unforeseen effects down the line on different aspects of the game. These will be sorted out.

For the people complaining about Jacobs playing I would suggest that having an hour to do a stream would limit his thinking and planning time and when he built those forts I'm pretty sure he wasn't anticipating his snap decision to DoW on Russia to spice up the end of the stream.

Anyway thanks for the stream, I love to see the UI etc in action!
 
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Denkt

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I think they should tie doctrines in with army/navy/airforce experience rather than regular research. It felt like little Finland developed its doctrine way too fast.

He still had a few doctrine left, each taking half a year to research. Around 1940 he still had +2 years left on doctrine research.

Look at how little he actually had manage to research in 4 years even with all national focus bonuses. Nobody is going to research all technologies in HOI4, not even at 1948.

I do not want to see Belgian or Swedish state-of-of-the-art fighters and tanks.
We have talked about this before, it is not unrealistic that minors are able to keep up or even surpass majors in some tech areas. Sweden if staying peaceful should still lack combat experience which are used to make the super tanks and the super aircrafts.
 
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Axe99

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Great to see another stream, and thank to Jakob and PDS for showing it :). As others have said, I think we need to take a deep breath about the AI - many of us have clamoured for more information on a game that's clearly not finished (they'd be selling it to us if it was :)), and now that we've got it, we're complaining that it's got bits that aren't finished? Seems a little unfair to me. And, as others have mentioned, the AI seems to be a little bugged as well - don't forget it seemed a lot more active in the SCW in Johan/Jakob/Troy's game.

For those worrying about developing the AI last, you can waste a lot of time if you code the AI early, then add/remove features that break it - it makes a lot of sense to spend time and effort teaching the computer to play the game, when the features of the game are set, rather than still in flux.

The things that I took personally from the stream were:

- colour coding defensive battleplans to give an indication of force strength is a nice touch.

- We got a quick look at the minor nation national focuses, and they looked pretty good – we even got nuclear and rocket focuses down the end. Obviously didn’t include the more unique political stuff of the majors, but given they had to be generic, they look pretty good, and the range of political options available was promising.

- All in all, playing a minor country looks a decent bit more interesting in HoI4 than HoIs previous, which is a plus.

- Does 10 years for a heavy cruiser and no oil, 3 steel, one dockyard mean 1 year for a heavy cruiser with 10 dockyards? If so, then it would be possible to make (and therefore run) a decent navy with no oil at all for a nation with more dockyards. Obviously, we still need to wait and see how it turns out, but I’m still sceptical about the approach to oil in-game.

- Game seemed to run pretty good at speed 5 early, although the relatively limited AI may mean that's not indicative, as the AI will take some serious processing juice.

- The comments on the ease of Russia making a naval invasion around the Mannerheim line suggest it’ll be a good deal easier making naval invasions in-game than historically. This isn’t a new thing for HoI, so it's not a bad thing, per se, although I'd personally prefer naval invasions require a deeper strategic approach.

- It’s great that the bulk of the gap between majors and minors is now more industry than research, this is both more historically plausible and more fun.

- Japan only sent one division to Spain this time, that's an improvement, but they still seem to have something of an unusual fascination with the Iberian peninsula. Later in the stream, they joined the SCW on the Axis side - screw China and the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere, Japan can into China :). I don't think this is a big worrhy, I suspect that Japan's position in the diplomatic game is a little tricky relative to the other nations, and there'll still be work done on it.

- The Spanish Civil war turning into a big broo-ha-ha (at least on paper!) was cool.

- Manual orders looked easy and intuitive. In fact, the combination of broad-brush battleplans and manual orders as required looks like it has a stack of potential.
 
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dav77-b

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Great to see another stream, and thank to Jakob and PDS for showing it :). As others have said, I think we need to take a deep breath about the AI - many of us have clamoured for more information on a game that's clearly not finished (they'd be selling it to us if it was :)), and now that we've got it, we're complaining that it's got bits that aren't finished? Seems a little unfair to me. And, as others have mentioned, the AI seems to be a little bugged as well - don't forget it seemed a lot more active in the SCW in Johan/Jakob/Troy's game.

For those worrying about developing the AI last, you can waste a lot of time if you code the AI early, then add/remove features that break it - it makes a lot of sense to spend time and effort teaching the computer to play the game, when the features of the game are set, rather than still in flux.

The things that I took personally from the stream were:

- colour coding defensive battleplans to give an indication of force strength is a nice touch.

- We got a quick look at the minor nation national focuses, and they looked pretty good – we even got nuclear and rocket focuses down the end. Obviously didn’t include the more unique political stuff of the majors, but given they had to be generic, they look pretty good, and the range of political options available was promising.

- All in all, playing a minor country looks a decent bit more interesting in HoI4 than HoIs previous, which is a plus.

- Does 10 years for a heavy cruiser and no oil, 3 steel, one dockyard mean 1 year for a heavy cruiser with 10 dockyards? If so, then it would be possible to make (and therefore run) a decent navy with no oil at all for a nation with more dockyards. Obviously, we still need to wait and see how it turns out, but I’m still sceptical about the approach to oil in-game.

- Game seemed to run pretty good at speed 5 early, although the relatively limited AI may mean that's not indicative, as the AI will take some serious processing juice.

- The comments on the ease of Russia making a naval invasion around the Mannerheim line suggest it’ll be a good deal easier making naval invasions in-game than historically. This isn’t a new thing for HoI, so it's not a bad thing, per se, although I'd personally prefer naval invasions require a deeper strategic approach.

- It’s great that the bulk of the gap between majors and minors is now more industry than research, this is both more historically plausible and more fun.

- Japan only sent one division to Spain this time, that's an improvement, but they still seem to have something of an unusual fascination with the Iberian peninsula. Later in the stream, they joined the SCW on the Axis side - screw China and the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere, Japan can into China :). I don't think this is a big worrhy, I suspect that Japan's position in the diplomatic game is a little tricky relative to the other nations, and there'll still be work done on it.

- The Spanish Civil war turning into a big broo-ha-ha (at least on paper!) was cool.

- Manual orders looked easy and intuitive. In fact, the combination of broad-brush battleplans and manual orders as required looks like it has a stack of potential.


If you look the Infantry equipment Produktion, you will see that doubling the amount of factories does almost nothing ( from 7/day to 8/day ) if you have not enough resources.
 
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hyeondrugs

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There still needs to be an answer to the long awaited question as to whats going on with Manchukou. In this stream he said the Japanese simply decided not to create it this time around. But thats impossible because Manchukou was created in 1932 when the scenario starts in 1936. For Manchukuo not to exist doesn't make sense because the British Raj exists.
 
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Alliegorical

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I know this has already been said, but some of you guys are not listening: the AI was not half-baked or stupid. It was totally nonexistent (at least when it comes to moving/controling divisions on the ground). Since we saw the AI acting perfectly normally in the SCW two weeks ago, this clearly means that the AI issue was nothing more than a bug.

So no, they are not waiting until now to program the AI. If the game is being submitted for beta release, that means that the AI (along with the rest of the game) is finished, and only needs some bugs ironed out. This was one of them.
 
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If you look the Infantry equipment Produktion, you will see that doubling the amount of factories does almost nothing ( from 7/day to 8/day ) if you have not enough resources.

Cheers, I'd missed that, good news :).
 
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darianstarfire

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I learned a lot from today's stream even though the AI didn't work. It's only an hour and we got to see a lot of the basic operations in work. I still liked today stream as much as the others even though it wasn't perfect. I don't expect that at this point.
 

Caesar15

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I found it a little weird how he never bothered putting resources into his production for the most part and just stuck with the low output. It even looked like he could have not done the heavy cruiser and just put the steel in the weapons and thus actually produce a meaningful amount.
 
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Will Steel

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22:47 German Anime Girl as picture.

Anime picture for german version conformed

So?

Did they not say it was temporary? And besides, anime portraits would be much better as a part of a mod.
 

blue_yonder

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Just finished watching it, and wanted to say thank you to Jakob and the other guy for a brilliant and very entertaining hour. What gives me confidence in a game is the intelligence of the people making it, which is why I knew in advance that totalwar rome2 would be an unmitigated disaster. Hoi4, on the other hand, is going to be astonishing.

Coming to the forum to read this thread, everything is as expected. In amongst the occasional sane voice, the hysteria of those wetting themselves to own the game tomorrow, the outraged indignation of the neo nazis, I find an incredibly valuable piece of info that matters infinitely more than all the drivel: wiz is designing a completely new architecture for the AI. It’s in its infancy at the moment, and instead of being thrilled about the birth and the opportunities it will bring in years to come, folk are in a panic because it’s utterly helpless and in nappies.

It was somehow appropriate that this gameplay was in Finland, because there is no better setting for the English adage that some people can’t see the forest for the trees. What really matters in the long term is ideas and imagination and concept and design, and in all those areas what I’ve seen in these www’s is quite amazing. Actually enabling those ideas to reach their full potential just involves hard work and time.
 
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