World Conquest tips for 1.30 patch?

[Sfan]

I quit my Provence-Jerusalem-France run around 1700 and had ~6k dev. In the end I had 50-60% of my gov capacity used. The "trick" is to build courthouses and the 'manufactory' that reduces gov cost in state, that let's you have 4x more stated dev.

For WC the strongest options are probably in this order:
Austria
All decent-sized hordes
Ottomans
Aragon -> France
Castille -> France
England -> France
France
Poland -> Russia

Out of curiosity, how do you come up with this order, and do you mean easiest, fastest, and with which skillcap? I would tend to heavily disagree, but I'm really curious (especially the Hordes, either you talk about fastest and they're way above Austria, or you talk about easiest and they're not there at all).

 

[El_Cid_]

I'm only like 40 years into an Ottoman WC campaign to learn the new mechanics.

Advice:

Play as Ottomans - they get Gov Capacity from the Ottoman Govt Reform now which is nice on top of all the pre-1.30 advantages they had.

My approach so far is to focus on using my permaclaims, statifying everything in order to maximise reform progress.
The reason I'm so focussed on reform progress is that i can get like 250 Gov Capacity and +10 Max Absolutism from the later reforms. Ergo, going ham early on territories will hurt in the long run. Having messed around on console last night though, the extra +10 Max absolutism from the reforms is a 'nice to have' so long as you get +20 from court and country and +15 from high crownland. It may well transpire that I didn't need to worry so much about reform progress but I'll only get a feel for that later in the campaign. This is going to allow me to still run a bunch of priveliges whilst still having max admin efficiency.

I'm going to get flamed now when I reveal my idea choices. 1st Exploration. I like picking Explo because it opens up avenues of expansion there would not otherwise have been. I can charter a trade company in Morocco and hop to Brazil from there. I reckon I'm in with a great shout of spawning Colonialism and even if I don't I'll have a CN for super fast and cheap embracing of it. It will require very little resources to take the New World away from the usual colonizers early.
It's also going to help me get to Philipines, Indonesia etc. quickly and I can spread AE around a bit. I'll ditch Exploration as soon as I've dominated the New World and have a presence (read deus vult CB) on all the areas of Africa and Asia).

I've always hated paying dip in peace deals and it's such a long wait for Imperialism CB. Now with it being much easier to sit at +3 ToH for Ottomans (no need to juggle Dhimmi interactions) I strongly considered Influence instead but that would have prevented taking Explo where I wanted and then I would benefit from less AE by using Deus Vult. I won't bother converting any Heathen land - just Heretic. I also plan flipping to Ibadi so I can deus vult pretty much the World.

As I go I'll focus more on vassal feeding (I'm targeting Persia and Indonesia/Phillipines/Malacca for this) if I'm getting close to Gov Capacity limit.

On the economic side it's going to be a bit of a change from 1.29. I feel like I'm going to have to focus much more on getting maximum bang (ducats) for my buck (Gov Capacity usage). I anticipate courthouse spamming to be vital and so I'm keen to get my economy snowballing asap.

Edit: Oh and I'm reducing autonomy in all my states a lot more than I would have in 1.29 since rebels are more tolerable in 1.30.

 

[Sinuous]

I'm only like 40 years into an Ottoman WC campaign to learn the new mechanics.


I'm going to get flamed now when I reveal my idea choices. 1st Exploration. I like picking Explo because it opens up avenues of expansion there would not otherwise have been. I can charter a trade company in Morocco and hop to Brazil from there. I reckon I'm in with a great shout of spawning Colonialism and even if I don't I'll have a CN for super fast and cheap embracing of it. It will require very little resources to take the New World away from the usual colonizers early.
It's also going to help me get to Philipines, Indonesia etc. quickly and I can spread AE around a bit. I'll ditch Exploration as soon as I've dominated the New World and have a presence (read deus vult CB) on all the areas of Africa and Asia).

This part gives me some ideas for a Sunni One Faith if ever decide to try one. If chartering a trade company from Morocco is possible, then defeating the catholic colonizers becomes a lot easier and don't have to rely on No CB Granada.

 

[Alblaka]

I'm going to get flamed now when I reveal my idea choices. 1st Exploration. I like picking Explo because it opens up avenues of expansion there would not otherwise have been. I can charter a trade company in Morocco and hop to Brazil from there

Prior to 1.30, maybe. But with Trade Company chartering like that? Definitely fair play.

Actually gives me an idea for a Venice game. Because if you can legitimately Trade Charter everywhere, the moneybag nation can probably skip military and buy themselves to Empire Rank.

 

[Reman]

Some of my initial thoughts:

• Governing capacity is a completely solvable problem if you have enough $ to pay for courthouses. If anything, I feel like I can full state far more than I could before, especially later on. This makes vassals better because you can get full states from them without burning admin.
• Max absolutism is essentially your budget for estate privileges after the mid game. Getting to 105 absolutism means you can take the +1 adm point a month without compromising your administrative efficiency. Because of this, I'd say doing Court and Country is more important than ever. Getting +20 max absolutism means a lot of great bonuses later on. It's not strictly necessary to get 100 absolutism, but it's probably worthwhile in most games.
• Getting crown land above 75 gets you the +15 max absolutism. Getting crown land to 100 is unnecessary, as the reward differences between 75 and 100 are marginal. Getting crown land above 60 for +10 absolutism is usually sufficient, unless you really want that +5 absolutism for another bonus.
• The admin efficiency nerf (40 to 30 at 100 absolutism) hurts.
• Not sure how consistent getting the revolution is now, but it seems significantly more RNG than it was previously.

 

[giovdb]

I didn't read the who thread, but here we go:

There is no reason why France should NOT be Revolutionary in a WC. It's super OP. The government reforms are amazing (I love the one that gives +1 free to ALL policies). You get +40% force limits, manpower, and the best CB in the game. And more.

You do not need 100% Crown Land for +15 max absolutism. You only need 75%. The extra 25% only gives 5% taxes and a few other minor bonuses. As Austria, I'm at 110 Absolutism with 79% Crown land (I am getting +5 from golden age though). I'm using one privilege (the one that increases equilibrium for all estates and calls the automatic diet - but not really needed). I think Court and Country is worth it (I didn't do it though) as it allows you to keep all those governing capacity privileges while staying above 100 absolutism.

Build Town Halls in every single province. Build State Houses in every single state (once you're overwhelmingly rich), focusing on provinces with paper, glass, and gems (I think gems too don't remember). Even then you'll probably still go over capacity by a lot if you don't use lots of vassals.

Unless you're WC as Spain or Portugal, or someone outside of Europe, I don't think exploration is worth it for colonizing the Americas. It's much better to just annex a colonizer and you get all their colonies for free. It can be worth it though, to start attacking Africa and India early, especially since France is in a bad AE position in Europe. But maybe expansion is better for the latter.

I think at some point you should drop Strong Duchies, especially after completing Influence and Diplo.

 

[giovdb]

Some of my initial thoughts:

• Governing capacity is a completely solvable problem if you have enough $ to pay for courthouses. If anything, I feel like I can full state far more than I could before, especially later on. This makes vassals better because you can get full states from them without burning admin.
• Max absolutism is essentially your budget for estate privileges after the mid game. Getting to 105 absolutism means you can take the +1 adm point a month without compromising your administrative efficiency. Because of this, I'd say doing Court and Country is more important than ever. Getting +20 max absolutism means a lot of great bonuses later on. It's not strictly necessary to get 100 absolutism, but it's probably worthwhile in most games.
• Getting crown land above 75 gets you the +15 max absolutism. Getting crown land to 100 is unnecessary, as the reward differences between 75 and 100 are marginal. Getting crown land above 60 for +10 absolutism is usually sufficient, unless you really want that +5 absolutism for another bonus.
• The admin efficiency nerf (40 to 30 at 100 absolutism) hurts.
• Not sure how consistent getting the revolution is now, but it seems significantly more RNG than it was previously.

Your statement for GC is inaccurate. Town Halls alone are not enough by a long shot. They may come close if you want to micro every single province, delete buildings, and literally make sure there's a Town Hall in EVERY province... then maybe. In my game as Austria I have Town Halls and State Houses in everything, and it's not enough (but I did not go into every full province and delete buildings to make room for Town Halls). And keep in mind this is Austria that I'm talking about, with the HRE swarm. It'll be extremely difficult, I think, for a WC run with anyone else.

 

[Reman]

Your statement for GC is inaccurate. Town Halls alone are not enough by a long shot. They may come close if you want to micro every single province, delete buildings, and literally make sure there's a Town Hall in EVERY province... then maybe. In my game as Austria I have Town Halls and State Houses in everything, and it's not enough (but I did not go into every full province and delete buildings to make room for Town Halls). And keep in mind this is Austria that I'm talking about, with the HRE swarm. It'll be extremely difficult, I think, for a WC run with anyone else.

If money is a concern, courthouses in territories is the most efficient method of conquest.

Beyond that, state houses with correct goods > town halls > state houses with wrong goods, holding dev equal.

It looks like manually deleting tons of docks to make room for GC buildings is going to be necessary.

 

[giovdb]

If money is a concern, courthouses in territories is the most efficient method of conquest.

Beyond that, state houses with correct goods > town halls > state houses with wrong goods, holding dev equal.

It looks like manually deleting tons of docks to make room for GC buildings is going to be necessary.

In my game, money is not the issue. The issue is that in order to complete the Austrian Mission tree, I'll need to take the last HRE reform (that's the only way to get rid of my vassals that turned Revolutionary, other than releasing and attacking them), and when I do that, my capacity is going to skyrocket by a few thousand. I am building Town Halls in my subject's provinces in anticipation, but it's a major micro-pain in the ***. Busy stupid work that's no fun at all. Hegemon's should provide a MASSIVE GC capacity since their whole point is to prevent the boring micro at the end of a WC. But GC creates more micro than ever before (maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get my point I think).

 

[Reman]

but it's a major micro-pain in the ***. Busy stupid work that's no fun at all. Hegemon's should provide a MASSIVE GC capacity since their whole point is to prevent the boring micro at the end of a WC. But GC creates more micro than ever before (maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get my point I think).

Fully agreed. I'm enjoying all the QoL additions in this patch, but the fact that a major limiter to expansion is tied to deleting buildings one at a time has made the game significantly more tedious overall. Deleting Ai dockspam was already annoying before, but now it's gotten 5x worse.

I guess this is the price we have to pay to play the game now.

 

[Alblaka]

Uh, you instantly get 100 absolutism at 1610 once more by accepting particularist demands and lowering autonomy in all provinces. Just have upset burgers (clerics and nobles at 50+ loyalty) and revoke land, rebels poof up, accept demands. Now you have tons of lands to decrease autonomy in.

Oh that's cheeky. Avoids the hassle of raising autonomy 30 years prior, and can be done in a day.

 

[hegel68]

Uh, you instantly get 100 absolutism at 1610 once more by accepting particularist demands and lowering autonomy in all provinces. Just have upset burgers (clerics and nobles at 50+ loyalty) and revoke land, rebels poof up, accept demands. Now you have tons of lands to decrease autonomy in.

How are you doing that? I am playing Byzantium and just hit 1610. I tried your strategy, but it doesn't seem possible to piss off my burghers enough. I removed their privileges, took crown land two times in a row, lowered my stability, removed accepted cultures etc., but nothing happened. I could treat my subjects how I wanted, but nothing seemed to upset them. They still loved me, no matter no matter what I did, even at a mere 4.5% loyalty

Then I finally got a particularist revolt when I took crown land for the third time in 1620, but only in very few provinces. Everything I got out of this were around 12 absolutism. How should I proceed? Is Byzantium simply too stable for getting higher absolutism (which would be a bit ironic, since absolutism tried to get exactly the kind of stability and carte blanche for despotic measures that Byzantium seems to already have )?

 

[Bki]

How are you doing that? I am playing Byzantium and just hit 1610. I tried your strategy, but it doesn't seem possible to piss off my burghers enough. I removed their privileges, took crown land two times in a row, lowered my stability, removed accepted cultures etc., but nothing happened. I could treat my subjects how I wanted, but nothing seemed to upset them. They still loved me, no matter no matter what I did, even at a mere 4.5% loyalty

Then I finally got a particularist revolt when I took crown land for the third time in 1620, but only in very few provinces. Everything I got out of this were around 12 absolutism. How should I proceed? Is Byzantium simply too stable for getting higher absolutism (which would be a bit ironic, since absolutism tried to get exactly the kind of stability and carte blanche for despotic measures that Byzantium seems to already have )?

If you seize land while an estate's loyalty is under 50% this will trigger a revolt from them. Since before absolutism you will want to slowly roll back most of the privileges and get at least 60% crownland, the loyalty equilibrium should be at around 40-45% by that point so that shouldn't be too hard.

 

[FRodrigues]

But doesn't accepting the demands of particularists give more land to the burgers? How can I accept the demands and have a higher crownland?

 

[hegel68]

But doesn't accepting the demands of particularists give more land to the burgers? How can I accept the demands and have a higher crownland?

Exactly, I ran into the same problem, especially since being low on crown land also lowers your absolutism.

 

[Bki]

But doesn't accepting the demands of particularists give more land to the burgers? How can I accept the demands and have a higher crownland?

It's fine, just make sure you have more than 60% after accepting demands and you will seize the rest back in no time.

 

[hegel68]

If you seize land while an estate's loyalty is under 50% this will trigger a revolt from them. Since before absolutism you will want to slowly roll back most of the privileges and get at least 60% crownland, the loyalty equilibrium should be at around 40-45% by that point so that shouldn't be too hard.

O.k., it seems that I did everything wrong with the estates then. I didn't give many privileges to them, because I thought this might cause problems in the long run, but I also didn't seize any crown land, because I thought, it wouldn't be worth the trouble. So, I was rather low on crown land in 1610.
However, I used the missions and had the loyalty of all estates extremely high by 1610. Especially of the burghers, because their missions were usually the easiest and most rewarding. They were above 90% loyalty in 1610, which explains, why I had to take crown land three times in a row to finally have them revolt. But even then, I could only get 12 absolutism from reducing autonomy out of that and the loss of crown land by giving in to their demands cost me actually about the same amount of absolutism. So, much ado about nothing.

I guess, it is time or another restart then. Or maybe I just stop playing and delete the game. This game is just too frustrating and historically too counterintuitive for me (like high loyalty, unity and stability stopping you from gaining absolutism, which should obviously be the other way round).

 

[hegel68]

It's fine, just make sure you have more than 60% after accepting demands and you will seize the rest back in no time.

And what do you do, if you have only around 35% of crown land in 1610?

 

[Sfan]

You look at it the wrong way. People are providing a way to game the system, but you don't need low loyalty and stability to reach high absolutism. The easiest way is definitely to have a high crownland and let it tick by +1 every year passively, with the occasional harsh treatment, strengthening legitimacy or raising stability. People are just providing quicker ways, but if you want realism, you don't have to game the system, it works fine as it is.

In your case, having low crownland means you weren't absolute. That's ok. Shit happens, take your time to increase that, that just slows your run. But that's actually completely historical that having 65% of your country owned by other people make you not absolute.

 

[hegel68]

occasional harsh treatment, strengthening legitimacy or raising stability.

Well, it's Byzantium. I have 3 stability and 100 legitimacy in 1610 and thanks to religious ideas and Byzantine national ideas, I am converting new provinces so fast that they don't even think about rebellions which I could suppress via harsh treatment.