Is it possible to do a WC and core all provinces? Or is this something I should just give up on immidiately
World conquest question
- Thread starter Simoleum
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You made this thread and asked questions about a WC.
The forum is full of discussions about WC.
Why would you you ask such a thing?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/post-your-europa-universalis-4-empire.707840/
This thread alone is full of them.
Roughly in the theme of the topic, how am I doing in this attempt? (I appreciate its may be difficult to tell for sure):
Delhi, Baluchistan, Malwa, Crimea and Wallachia* are vassals, I have the west coast of India. In 6 years Delhi should be annexed and my truces with Jaunpur and VJ will run out. My idea groups are Influence, admin (nearly complete), quantity and offensive. Picked a fourth military group mainly for somewhere to sink extra military points. My force limit is around 320 I think and I'm up to date all 3 techs.
Looking at other people's games I should probably be closer to owning all of India by now and I can see a few mistakes that I've made along the way that have slowed me down and could have been improved. I guess even if a WC is no longer realistic its probably worthwhile continuing so that I can see what other mistakes I make and to get some experience of taking down Ming.
*I realise now that this was probably a mistake.
Delhi, Baluchistan, Malwa, Crimea and Wallachia* are vassals, I have the west coast of India. In 6 years Delhi should be annexed and my truces with Jaunpur and VJ will run out. My idea groups are Influence, admin (nearly complete), quantity and offensive. Picked a fourth military group mainly for somewhere to sink extra military points. My force limit is around 320 I think and I'm up to date all 3 techs.
Looking at other people's games I should probably be closer to owning all of India by now and I can see a few mistakes that I've made along the way that have slowed me down and could have been improved. I guess even if a WC is no longer realistic its probably worthwhile continuing so that I can see what other mistakes I make and to get some experience of taking down Ming.
*I realise now that this was probably a mistake.
^ You can one tag from that, especially if you push absolutism to get court and country --> max it ASAP once age of discovery ends. I one-tagged from this position on current patch:
You shouldn't have trouble getting in front of that by that date. You even get to have RCC in NIs before 1750
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You shouldn't have trouble getting in front of that by that date. You even get to have RCC in NIs before 1750
.As long as you dont feed them and you vassalized them with the mission its all good.
I just wonder why you havent annexed them yet.
The only issue i get with Vassals is that the "integrated vassal" modifier stacks too high if i dont annex the oldest ones first.
While you could be further ahead your picture looks better then most screenshots posted with around that date.
I just dont get:
Arty barrage and rolling generals.
Or just sit on the points and watch them be green.
Wasting Mil is not the end of the world.
Attack some OPM Trib, attack other Tribs, as many as you are comfortable fighting at once, like 4-8 depending on size.
Siege down the OPM, white peace the OPM, laugh in Mings face.
Once you own all of Asia minus Ming and one OPM you can do whatever you want.
Taking on Ming is a joke with the current mechanics.
I would have taken Religious third and fed more Vassals inbetween to save on points.
You should have so many MP that you dont know what to do with them.
As long as you stayed Muslim you get 3 heirs per disinherit.
So there is no reason to accept anything less than a 5/5/2.
This prevents the Janissary Decadence and gives acces to all three Islam decisions
I assume you got them throu the event.
Why are they still the same size? You could have had them fabricate on the Golden Horde and stuff and attack from there.
They are also ideal to feed them the ICC land from Georgia.
Why havent you annexed them if you dont intend to feed them?
You Vassals are really small.
Why are you floating so much money?
Build Manufacturies.
-3 diprep doesn't stack (it will reset to 10 years each time you complete annexing though), and as long as you start annexing one it won't stop from dipping below 190. So really you just need to make sure to START problem children vassals before too many others finish. If you scutage them, you can even start them while at war.
In a pinch this modifier also disappears completely even if very high if you don't annex anybody for like 20+ years.
At least develop or something
. Once you can afford cannons I find I'm sitting on OE even without barrage. At least once rev times come around I can just shove it into RT and re-elect, effectively transferring some of it into ADM/DIP.Not talking about the Diprep.
But i had Vassals around for so long that i had to pull all the tricks to get them above 190 to even start.
Once they have some -200 from annexed Vassal things get tricky.
If it atleast decayed with 2 or 3 base. But at 1 even BROT barely helps.
But both it and the Diprep thing are retarded.
I would have to look this up, but i think any negative modifier to relations disappears entirely if it hasnt increased at all for 30 years.
To this day i still have not played with Rev.
Every time 1700 rolls around i look at the map and i dont find a reason to get an even better CB.
I might to Catholic as France just to get a taste, since i might need it for the more sketchy religions.
On that -30 for having integrated other vassals, keep in mind you can give gifts, use great power influence, grant subsidies, RM, improve relations, kill their rebels and liberate their provinces etc. There are a lot of ways to get to +190 and the modifier does tick down. There are also a lot of ways to keep LD in check like feeding using the grant province interaction and pay off debts. Client States are really helpful since you can force-feed them 300 OE worth of provinces to wreck their economy and drown them in rebels - allowing you to kill the rebels for them and pay off their debts and so forth. Plus they will eventually core it all for you.
Other thing to remember is that you can actually self-core at an amazing rate now. Just the 50 CCR and 70 efficiency that is easily available to everyone (assuming a tag-switch of which there are several great ones available) is enough to self-core basically the entire world over the course of the Age of Revolutions. You don't have to 100% every war (and doing so if often pointless as 100 WS of land is going to be about 260+ OE) just stay at 90 - 100 OE and be mindful of where there are large empires that will will take multiple wars. When you really need to dismantle someone that's the time to take that 260 OE of land from them and divide it into Client States. Just keep in mind that they have no Absolutism so for example in 1720 a fresh Client State is taking double the OE you are for the same amount of land (it's more than double after ADM 27). Of course as mentioned above it's often advantageous to abuse them with mass amounts of OE. Just be ready to kill their rebels.
Other thing to remember is that you can actually self-core at an amazing rate now. Just the 50 CCR and 70 efficiency that is easily available to everyone (assuming a tag-switch of which there are several great ones available) is enough to self-core basically the entire world over the course of the Age of Revolutions. You don't have to 100% every war (and doing so if often pointless as 100 WS of land is going to be about 260+ OE) just stay at 90 - 100 OE and be mindful of where there are large empires that will will take multiple wars. When you really need to dismantle someone that's the time to take that 260 OE of land from them and divide it into Client States. Just keep in mind that they have no Absolutism so for example in 1720 a fresh Client State is taking double the OE you are for the same amount of land (it's more than double after ADM 27). Of course as mentioned above it's often advantageous to abuse them with mass amounts of OE. Just be ready to kill their rebels.
Thanks that makes a lot of sense.
I was focusing on annexing the larger vassals first as they would allow me to attack more people but will annex Wallachia next and start feeding Crimea.
Where are the best places to build manufacturies? I think in the other thread someone said to build them all over the India TC land?
Absolutism is something I need to read up on as I haven't played too much recently. Should I be looking to raise autonomy in low value provinces now so that I can decrease it when Absolutism hits?
I'm sorry, it was something I planned to ask in the main thread, but forgot. So I posted it separately.
Wait, doesn't it disappear fully after 30 years just like "unlawful territory"?
Either way, if you're going for WC it will decay fast enough since you're stacking IR anyways.
And to get into 'it's difficult' regions you'd have to annex 4 different nations while they're still alive and that's without calcing in IR. Why even keep a vassal that long?
You're still playing an outdated style. On the current patch vassals are nothing but conversion machines and objects that enable you to take more than 100% OE, but keeping any vassal is a mistake in any case.
Release, feed, integrate, repeat.
Ever since LD (and LD red) got nerfed you should've stopped keeping vassals around. It's not feasible anymore.
One of those cases where having experience in the game hurts you. I know the pain of playing like it's 1.16 and realizing that it isn't only not viable, but actually a mistake.
Well, the most important Vassal in question was a Portugal which i wanted to keep around for colonization.
I annexed like 7 Vassals in under 50 years. And going for 30 without any integration is rarely happening once it gets going.
Yes, thats what i use them for. But i still prefer fewer bigger ones. Keeping LD down is not as hard as increasing relations is time consuming.
Keep in mind that im doing One-Faith runs with all the Religions.
Even if Vajrayana ended up being stronger than i would have expected i still need Vassals.
If i take the "enforced religion" modifier and calc backwards then the Mamluks have been a Vassal for 400 month,
Trebizong for 650 and Novgorods has disappeared. So the full 1000 atleast.
If i release more smaller Vassals they all get the 100% LD from enforcing.
While Prestige is plentyful there is still a limit to it. just let them sit there on scutage while they are small, once they are bigger use them in wars.
They take care of the annoying stuff once their armies are big enough.
I had to stall the Mamluk integration for a few years while they converted their last 6 provinces.
The reason for the Bulgaria snake is that they will make the next barrier after Novgorod to keep Mandate up.
Eyyy, Vajra OF.
You are excused from any rules and are free to do whatever you want.
Could've popped Syria out before nibbling away Mamluks. They take religious as well.
EDIT: In all seriousness though, you fed the OE to Mamluks. That's kinda weird especially since there are more than enough good vassals available in the region.
You are excused from any rules and are free to do whatever you want.
Could've popped Syria out before nibbling away Mamluks. They take religious as well.
EDIT: In all seriousness though, you fed the OE to Mamluks. That's kinda weird especially since there are more than enough good vassals available in the region.
You should basically always influence vassals you feed as a great power especially in the end game, it gives them +1 monarch point income in their weakest category and increases trust. If this isn't ADM it's less useful but still nice. If they get a poor ADM ruler it's a fantastic tool. At this point you're not hurting for money.
Annexation throughput is really aided by extra diplomats. If you have 5 you can be improving with two vassals and annexing two vassals while still able to declare, good throughput. No vassal you have would get worse than -60 from annexed subjects before you start annexing (after which their opinion can safely drop < 190).
Some NIs have an extra diplomat, but if you don't just take aristocratic or espionage in the 6th or 7th idea group slot. I'm assuming you have diplomatic since the province war score cost and diplomat are very useful. Aristocratic has leader siege pip + extra general in there so it's a decent all-rounder for an end-game push, in my experience once you have +3 fort progress from age of rev you can bring down forts fast enough to constantly sustain 100 OE without needing to barrage.
In current patch making vassals into a march will clear temporary modifiers like enforced religion, grant province, and LD from rebel defection.
If you have diplomatic ideas finished, you do not take a stab hit from revoking marches.
Sometimes the LD from enforcing religion + small size of nation in question + debt they'll accumulate lets you just tank the LD hit without marching them and buy their loyalty back. Also Buddhism doesn't have in-built heathen tolerance, so client states will convert decently with cathedral spam, similar to Catholic.
Here is an example of client state conversion:
"China" was given a bit more than 300% overextension (15.3 unrest from OE). Before I did this, I deleted buildings to make room for cathedrals and built them before they could even core in most provinces.
I was running humanist, so barely cared if they converted. However, this is the result of doing that:
I immediately placed their land into trade company after annexing, so that's conversion by client state only. This should be your baseline for conversion; all subjects should be able to convert at an average of 8% missionary in accepted culture per subject for Buddhism at least. With religious, 11% and two missionaries.
Annexation throughput is really aided by extra diplomats. If you have 5 you can be improving with two vassals and annexing two vassals while still able to declare, good throughput. No vassal you have would get worse than -60 from annexed subjects before you start annexing (after which their opinion can safely drop < 190).
Some NIs have an extra diplomat, but if you don't just take aristocratic or espionage in the 6th or 7th idea group slot. I'm assuming you have diplomatic since the province war score cost and diplomat are very useful. Aristocratic has leader siege pip + extra general in there so it's a decent all-rounder for an end-game push, in my experience once you have +3 fort progress from age of rev you can bring down forts fast enough to constantly sustain 100 OE without needing to barrage.
In current patch making vassals into a march will clear temporary modifiers like enforced religion, grant province, and LD from rebel defection.
If you have diplomatic ideas finished, you do not take a stab hit from revoking marches.
Sometimes the LD from enforcing religion + small size of nation in question + debt they'll accumulate lets you just tank the LD hit without marching them and buy their loyalty back. Also Buddhism doesn't have in-built heathen tolerance, so client states will convert decently with cathedral spam, similar to Catholic.
Here is an example of client state conversion:
"China" was given a bit more than 300% overextension (15.3 unrest from OE). Before I did this, I deleted buildings to make room for cathedrals and built them before they could even core in most provinces.
I was running humanist, so barely cared if they converted. However, this is the result of doing that:
I immediately placed their land into trade company after annexing, so that's conversion by client state only. This should be your baseline for conversion; all subjects should be able to convert at an average of 8% missionary in accepted culture per subject for Buddhism at least. With religious, 11% and two missionaries.
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I dont really like doing that and i actually hope it goes away.
But i liked the whole LD thing alot better when it was still all one modifier.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...rsalis-4-empire.707840/page-642#post-23387005
I filled out Diplo and Eco as jokes at the end because nowhere to put the points.
I started as Uzbek. I didnt really use Vassals until well after 1500, because why would i.
I have used client states once in my EU4 career. I still find them pointless. They come way to late and why not just use someone with existing cores.
Do they not have the limit with granting province past 100 OE? Otherwise how would you delete the buildings?
They have no limit whatsoever. You can freely stuff them to 300% OE or more using the client state interactions. Late 1600's is late, but not so late that you can't make use of them (they are unlocked at the same time as imperialism). Their idea group picks always include humanist + administrative, and they also have a 10% RCC NI, so that's helpful. There aren't always better alternatives with cores.
They're a bit more loyal than normal vassals (flat modifier), but that rarely matters. I used 4 in that commonwealth game. One in Hungary, one in France, one in England, and one in China. China one had 500 development, rest were 300-350, all given directly to them in one go so I could keep OE nice for myself and just kill their comparatively weak + localized rebels. They won't carry your run but they're a nice tool.