World Conquest Advice

[dynalon]

If you start with Diplomatic ideas, Humanist will provide you with an additional +50% Improve Relations through idea and policy. I find that AE is the biggest expansion block earlygame, assuming you have the military might to take the wars you want to, so this is my preferred opener when playing as a major power (and not going conversion-heavy). I don't think taking Admin third (or even fourth) is too big a deal even in a WC run, just as long as you get it before absolutism hits.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

Taking Humanism to avoid revolts is perfectly reasonable. I find it to be remarkedly useful once the serious land grabs start as it typically triple taps: fewer religious revolts from unity and tolerance, blanket unrest reduction, and perhaps most importantly separatism reduction. It is often my third or fourth idea depending. My point is more that enduring the Reformation alone is a poor spend of an idea group. Staying Catholic, even with Humanism, makes killing off the centers highly lucrative as well. If you can vassalize England & Scotland, reduce them to 9 non-colonial provinces, disconnect their capital from any provinces with > 10 dev, or leave only with provinces with >= 10 dev that are in the area with the Scottish center that can help your lands stay Catholic and get some of those nice Council of Trent bonuses (e.g. +10% manpower in True Faith and institution spread) by strangling Anglicanism.

Killing off the center in Scotland may be worth two wars. If their capital is the center, then just force convert them once they flip ASAP. If it is not, take all of their provinces with higher dev than the center or isolate them (so they are not connected to other provinces). You wan the highest dev province in their largest contiguous block of dev to be the center. Then when you take their cap, the new cap is with the center. Next War is a force convert. If Scotland is not supersized, you may get decent cash along with a force conversion/dismemberment. This is again one of those things that gets much more lucrative depending on how Trent falls out.

You may well have better uses of your time and soldiers, but a 10% manpower boost in a province is pretty decent.

For you PU, mark some provinces in Portugal as critical. You can have your new PU junior expand there, and more importantly get you some cheap colonial nations (for the merchants) and overseas toeholds. Depending on who Portugal is allied with, you might be able to let your PU handle all the fighting and mainland sieging while you steal land in Africa, Asia, and the odd colonial nation capital. Having more merchants makes it much easier to get increasing rates of return on trade flows, getting at least footholds around Africa without wasting colonist time is also huge. If Portugal has a big enough colonial empire it might be worth while to eat them in Asia & Africa and then chew up Europe until you can annex them to snag all their colonies at once.

Yes, England only have I believe 10 provinces left in the world (4 in England, 6 abroad) so I think I can totally take them out. Once that is done, Portugal are the only country that can realistically colonise and I should be able to dismantle them in 2-3 wars depending on how big they are. That leaves the Americas and the rest of the world totally open to my colonisation. Unlocking the province warscore idea will surely help too, although I am struggling with Diplo points as I haven't had a ruler above 2 Diplo skill since the start of the game (even disinheriting!).

I am waiting to deal with the Ottomans at Mil tech 19 when my soldiers have the best advantage over them, unless I feel they start expanding too quickly. When I integrate Naples I will also be able to fabricate claims in Greece and use that to release Byzantium in a war. That's what I tried last time but their men were just too superior to mine.

I've also colonised in South Africa now and might war with Kilwa (Spain is Papal controller so I seemingly get a Crusade whichever Sunni country I war with) and then focus on getting a foothold in India.

We'll see how this goes in terms of World Conquest Thanks!

 

[jdavis86]

Semi related but is it a lot harder to max absolutism quickly when you take humanism in the first 4 idea groups? Or is the key to spawning particularlists just being at near max overextension?

 

[Travis_Bickle]

Semi related but is it a lot harder to max absolutism quickly when you take humanism in the first 4 idea groups? Or is the key to spawning particularlists just being at near max overextension?

Not at all! If you piss off your estates enough the particularists will always appear .

 

[Travis_Bickle]

I think I've run into my usual problem again. I can't grow big enough mid-game because of a shortage of diplo points (yes, diplo points, not admin points. I don't have the claims to expand , I don' know if unjustified demands would have helped) and by later game armies are too big to efficiently take anyone out without long costly wars (thinking of Austria/Ottomans here).

 

[Blizzrd33]

Semi related but is it a lot harder to max absolutism quickly when you take humanism in the first 4 idea groups? Or is the key to spawning particularlists just being at near max overextension?

You just need to remove Burghers estate from a province when their loyalty is below 40 (or from several to get it that low in the first place), instant Particularists revolt.

The more accepted cultures you have or territories that you have culture converted, the more provinces will have rebels of Particularist type.

 

[iClipse]

You just need to remove Burghers estate from a province when their loyalty is below 40 (or from several to get it that low in the first place), instant Particularists revolt.

The more accepted cultures you have or territories that you have culture converted, the more provinces will have rebels of Particularist type.

Are you still playing in 1.29?

 

[eoncommander]

You just need to remove Burghers estate from a province when their loyalty is below 40 (or from several to get it that low in the first place), instant Particularists revolt.

The more accepted cultures you have or territories that you have culture converted, the more provinces will have rebels of Particularist type.

That doesn't work in 1.30 - provinces don't have estates any more. I think if you seize land when burgher loyalty is below 50 you get particularist rebels.

I think I've run into my usual problem again. I can't grow big enough mid-game because of a shortage of diplo points (yes, diplo points, not admin points. I don't have the claims to expand , I don' know if unjustified demands would have helped) and by later game armies are too big to efficiently take anyone out without long costly wars (thinking of Austria/Ottomans here).

It's always the case that some countries will require multiple wars in the 1600s or 1700s. If the Ottomans have like 3k development, it might take four or five wars to grab all their land. But you'll have time for that, even if you don't start until the 1720s! Five year wars, plus fifteen-year truces in between, gives you five wars in 100 years. The goal is putting yourself in a position where you have enough soldiers to do that easily.

I feel like there must be some mistake you are still making, if you're running short of diplo points. It's fine to go into the negatives sometimes (which is a thing you can do in peace deals!). Taking influence early would of course help, since it reduces the diplo cost in peace deals, but I don't think it's necessary. What are you spending diplo points on? If it's integrating vassals, maybe you don't need to integrate everything so quickly.

 

[EarlKonrad]

Have you been taking a lot of land from non co-beligerant Countries? This can be brutal on your diplo points.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

It's always the case that some countries will require multiple wars in the 1600s or 1700s. If the Ottomans have like 3k development, it might take four or five wars to grab all their land. But you'll have time for that, even if you don't start until the 1720s! Five year wars, plus fifteen-year truces in between, gives you five wars in 100 years. The goal is putting yourself in a position where you have enough soldiers to do that easily.

I feel like there must be some mistake you are still making, if you're running short of diplo points. It's fine to go into the negatives sometimes (which is a thing you can do in peace deals!). Taking influence early would of course help, since it reduces the diplo cost in peace deals, but I don't think it's necessary. What are you spending diplo points on? If it's integrating vassals, maybe you don't need to integrate everything so quickly.

Let's just take a case in which the Ottomans have 400k men, Austria have around 150-200k with multiple alliances and Ming have a similar number. I find it's a huge drain on time and manpower to take them out. I've decided in the future I will only dismantle the HRE when I am ready to obliterate the HRE since what happens is, I dismantle it early (1500s) and it allows for someone like Mainz to become big instead if I wait, I can probably eat the whole of the HRE (minus Austria) in successive wars. Not worrying about AE cause they'll be gone.

Not to mention Russia will always have a huge army, although I save them for last as I like keeping them as a trusty ally. They will always help vs the Ottomans and even Ming.

Have you been taking a lot of land from non co-beligerant Countries? This can be brutal on your diplo points.

No! I never do that. But I still find in peace deals diplo points for asking for provinces can really add up. Maybe I need to make keep working on my spy network...

 

[Akela]

But I still find in peace deals diplo points for asking for provinces can really add up. Maybe I need to make keep working on my spy network...

How much land are you taking per-war? And where and why are you doing it? France's mission tree gives you a decent number of free claims, so it's not like you'd be struggling to build up an initial power base. After that, you might want to think about whether you can get away with a string-of-pearls type strategy and skip taking some of those provinces until you can come back with the Imperialism CB. Otherwise, if you really want to get started on the conquests early, you might want to look into the Religious idea group for the CB.

Early to mid-game, I often fight a lot of smallish wars for a comparatively small number of specific provinces, and for those it's not too hard to just forge a claim for everything I want to take. Provinces belonging to New World natives also don't cost diplo points (until they reform, I think?). Between conquering the Central American gold mines and seizing all of the Centers of Trade between the Ivory Coast and the Spice Islands, I can stay busy on essentially zero diplo expenditure for a decent while.

The first thing I'd consider if you're running out of claims is repeat wars against soft targets (preferably on multiple fronts). Fabricate a couple of claims, take the provinces, and then rinse-and-repeat as the truce ends. Mid-game France should be able to beat up on someone like Kilwa, Majapahit or the Aztecs with only a fraction of its forces, so it's not like you're trying to relocate your entire army every few years - just send in enough to get the job done.

Second is to grab a few claims on co-belligerents as well. Two claims on each of four different countries is quicker for your diplomats than eight claims on one nation, but if you're fighting all those countries anyway it doesn't make the war any harder. This is great for claiming territory in subjects - you don't even have to move the diplomat from the overlord, but you still don't pay extra for pre-existing claims elsewhere.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

How much land are you taking per-war? And where and why are you doing it? France's mission tree gives you a decent number of free claims, so it's not like you'd be struggling to build up an initial power base. After that, you might want to think about whether you can get away with a string-of-pearls type strategy and skip taking some of those provinces until you can come back with the Imperialism CB. Otherwise, if you really want to get started on the conquests early, you might want to look into the Religious idea group for the CB.

Early to mid-game, I often fight a lot of smallish wars for a comparatively small number of specific provinces, and for those it's not too hard to just forge a claim for everything I want to take. Provinces belonging to New World natives also don't cost diplo points (until they reform, I think?). Between conquering the Central American gold mines and seizing all of the Centers of Trade between the Ivory Coast and the Spice Islands, I can stay busy on essentially zero diplo expenditure for a decent while.

The first thing I'd consider if you're running out of claims is repeat wars against soft targets (preferably on multiple fronts). Fabricate a couple of claims, take the provinces, and then rinse-and-repeat as the truce ends. Mid-game France should be able to beat up on someone like Kilwa, Majapahit or the Aztecs with only a fraction of its forces, so it's not like you're trying to relocate your entire army every few years - just send in enough to get the job done.

Second is to grab a few claims on co-belligerents as well. Two claims on each of four different countries is quicker for your diplomats than eight claims on one nation, but if you're fighting all those countries anyway it doesn't make the war any harder. This is great for claiming territory in subjects - you don't even have to move the diplomat from the overlord, but you still don't pay extra for pre-existing claims elsewhere.

I am 100% confident I can unite the French region, get Milan, Naples and Spain under my control (PU) as well as control most of the British isles within the first 80-100 years of the game. The problem is what do I do after that? Indian countries often have big allies and SE Asia are generally out of reach without conquering India first. West Africa is doable with exploration ideas and provides a nice boost to income but owning everything West and South of Ethiopia doesn't provide the manpower/income boosts necessary to fight the likes of Ming/Bengal whilst keeping reserves in Europe. I'd say I've fixed the rest of my game, but this is my main issue atm.

Ideally, I'd like to vassalise Byzantium ASAP and use them as a way to conquer East early but the logistics can be hard.

 

[Big Bad France]

I am 100% confident I can unite the French region, get Milan, Naples and Spain under my control (PU) as well as control most of the British isles within the first 80-100 years of the game. The problem is what do I do after that? Indian countries often have big allies and SE Asia are generally out of reach without conquering India first. West Africa is doable with exploration ideas and provides a nice boost to income but owning everything West and South of Ethiopia doesn't provide the manpower/income boosts necessary to fight the likes of Ming/Bengal whilst keeping reserves in Europe. I'd say I've fixed the rest of my game, but this is my main issue atm.

Ideally, I'd like to vassalise Byzantium ASAP and use them as a way to conquer East early but the logistics can be hard.

The colonizers almost always have some islands in SEA and land in west Africa. You need to steal those from them when you go to war. When you force Spain into the PU, take their African and Asian land for yourself in the peace deal. Do the same with each of your wars against England. You can also charter trade companies.

 

[Akela]

SE Asia are generally out of reach without conquering India first.

Yeah, this is probably part of the problem. You can absolutely get to SE Asia without going through India - I'd have to double-check exactly what the range breakpoints are, but you should be able to use Exploration ideas to get there without conquering anything (assuming you get in early enough), just by leapfrogging the islands.

Try looking at something like Sao Tome -> St Helena -> Cape -> Comoros -> Mahe -> Holhavai -> Cocos Island/Nias.

If you're not rushing to start colonization the colonisers might take some of these, but you'll be able to get to South-East Africa somehow and the AI usually doesn't rush the Indian Ocean islands that fast. You're more likely to be competing with them in the Ivory Coast than south of India if you take Exploration reasonably early, and there aren't any bottlenecks where they can really cut you off there unless they've taken the entirety of West Africa.

If that isn't an option, then look for somewhere you can charter a colony in India using the diplomatic action (assuming you have Dharma). You only need a port to extend coring range, since you can bypass the Indian trade nodes and go straight to the Cape.

 

[Robert de Bruce]

I am 100% confident I can unite the French region, get Milan, Naples and Spain under my control (PU) as well as control most of the British isles within the first 80-100 years of the game. The problem is what do I do after that?

Totally wrong priority. Last time I did a WC was 2018, so some things changed since, but the general advice, first conquer ROTW, then turn to Europe is still the best general advice.
In Europe, aim for your culture group, in your case the French region and take what you can without too much effort and gathering too much AE. But focus on establishing a trade network from Ivory Coast to Cape to India and SEA. When you finish that in the first 100-150 years you did it the right way. You can still conquer Europe then.
But even with that trade network you better focus on the rest of India, SEA, Persia, China, Japan. When you are done with this, finish Africa, then Europe. You can bite chunks out of Europe whenever there is a good opportunity. But don't focus it till the end.
The idea groups for the recommended route would be also different, for example exploration, admin, humanist/religious. You can skip explo if you know how to deal with charter provinces etc., but explo might make it easier, especially when you have economic trouble.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

Totally wrong priority. Last time I did a WC was 2018, so some things changed since, but the general advice, first conquer ROTW, then turn to Europe is still the best general advice.
In Europe, aim for your culture group, in your case the French region and take what you can without too much effort and gathering too much AE. But focus on establishing a trade network from Ivory Coast to Cape to India and SEA. When you finish that in the first 100-150 years you did it the right way. You can still conquer Europe then.
But even with that trade network you better focus on the rest of India, SEA, Persia, China, Japan. When you are done with this, finish Africa, then Europe. You can bite chunks out of Europe whenever there is a good opportunity. But don't focus it till the end.
The idea groups for the recommended route would be also different, for example exploration, admin, humanist/religious. You can skip explo if you know how to deal with charter provinces etc., but explo might make it easier, especially when you have economic trouble.

I think you may be onto something here.

Although, one thing I disagree with is that you absolutely must kneecap England early. If you don't, they can build up a huge colonial Empire and that makes it impossible to land on the British isles. Often their manpower will be shot from the War of the Roses and you can quite easily have a foothold on England by 1500 which establishes your trade power in the English channel.

The other thing is, the quicker you get the PU CB over Spain in your mission tree as France, the quicker you can integrate them and receive all those merchants so you are in the words of Florry swimming in buckets of ducats.

Otherwise, it does indeed seem like it's a lot easier to find myself a strong ally in Europe and ignore it, focusing on Asia and Africa instead. Maybe I can leave a defensive stack in Europe and focus the rest of my resources on Africa and Asia.

I actually did take the advice here and established a trade node between South India - South Africa - Ivory Coast - English Channel but seemingly I should have really poured more effort into getting India fully under my control. There are also a number of high value provinces in Africa with Ivory and whatnot.

 

[iClipse]

I think you may be onto something here.

Although, one thing I disagree with is that you absolutely must kneecap England early. If you don't, they can build up a huge colonial Empire and that makes it impossible to land on the British isles. Often their manpower will be shot from the War of the Roses and you can quite easily have a foothold on England by 1500 which establishes your trade power in the English channel.

The other thing is, the quicker you get the PU CB over Spain in your mission tree as France, the quicker you can integrate them and receive all those merchants so you are in the words of Florry swimming in buckets of ducats.

Otherwise, it does indeed seem like it's a lot easier to find myself a strong ally in Europe and ignore it, focusing on Asia and Africa instead. Maybe I can leave a defensive stack in Europe and focus the rest of my resources on Africa and Asia.

I actually did take the advice here and established a trade node between South India - South Africa - Ivory Coast - English Channel but seemingly I should have really poured more effort into getting India fully under my control. There are also a number of high value provinces in Africa with Ivory and whatnot.

I agree with the poster above and your analysis here.

Colonisers are a pain to fight late in the game. Kneecapping them early is both easy to do and pays dividends lategame. Defeating them ealy makes colonisation so much slower in general. Do keep in mind that other countries will also start colonising if England/Portugal/Spain didn't take everything. Norway and Holland come to mind. Still, these will be a lot slower and easier to handle than the standard colonisers. Controlling England and the Channel is a priority for your trade income. But other than that, you really don't need to focus on Europe. Conquering Lubeck can be lucrative, but it will also take a lot of resources and generate a lot of AE.
With the Trade companies of old (1.29) I usually started with conquering India. It's huge, has a ton of development, is usually fractured enough to conquer easily, has a bad tech group and situation and with charter trade company you have easy access to the continent. I'm guessing in 1.30 India is still a good place to start for real blobbing. If you have India under control, there shouldn't be a single nation that can challenge you.

A fractured Ming is also a good expansion spot, but that doesn't seem to happen anymore since 1.30.

With Charter trade company you can even reach India without Exploration ideas, though the initial jump will probably be later due to colonisation range.

Be mindful of your trade situation though. Keep control of Zanzibar, the Cape and Ivory coast so that those sweet Indian trade goods actually reach your home trade node.

Focusing on Europe first is nice if going for Mare Nostrum. But completely unneeded when trying to do a WC. Go and conquer where it's easy first.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

I agree with the poster above and your analysis here.

Colonisers are a pain to fight late in the game. Kneecapping them early is both easy to do and pays dividends lategame. Defeating them ealy makes colonisation so much slower in general. Do keep in mind that other countries will also start colonising if England/Portugal/Spain didn't take everything. Norway and Holland come to mind. Still, these will be a lot slower and easier to handle than the standard colonisers. Controlling England and the Channel is a priority for your trade income. But other than that, you really don't need to focus on Europe. Conquering Lubeck can be lucrative, but it will also take a lot of resources and generate a lot of AE.
With the Trade companies of old (1.29) I usually started with conquering India. It's huge, has a ton of development, is usually fractured enough to conquer easily, has a bad tech group and situation and with charter trade company you have easy access to the continent. I'm guessing in 1.30 India is still a good place to start for real blobbing. If you have India under control, there shouldn't be a single nation that can challenge you.

A fractured Ming is also a good expansion spot, but that doesn't seem to happen anymore since 1.30.

With Charter trade company you can even reach India without Exploration ideas, though the initial jump will probably be later due to colonisation range.

Be mindful of your trade situation though. Keep control of Zanzibar, the Cape and Ivory coast so that those sweet Indian trade goods actually reach your home trade node.

Focusing on Europe first is nice if going for Mare Nostrum. But completely unneeded when trying to do a WC. Go and conquer where it's easy first.

India is a bit of a mixed basket on various saves I've had. Sometimes it is more fractured and there are 1-2 smaller states you can beat up on, but other times it's basically split between a huge Vijay/Bahmani/Bengal with very large armies.

I hadn't even thought of Charter trade companies though....I'd actually rather not waste points on Exploration ideas even though quest for the new world is necessarily for the mission tree. I think Admin/Diplo/Humanist early on would serve me a lot better.

 

[EarlKonrad]

India is a bit of a mixed basket on various saves I've had. Sometimes it is more fractured and there are 1-2 smaller states you can beat up on, but other times it's basically split between a huge Vijay/Bahmani/Bengal with very large armies.

I hadn't even thought of Charter trade companies though....I'd actually rather not waste points on Exploration ideas even though quest for the new world is necessarily for the mission tree. I think Admin/Diplo/Humanist early on would serve me a lot better.

Charter is amazing if you have the ducats to spare. The worse part about conquering India is landing there. Charting a single province eliminates this so you can just buy a cheap province, station a lot of troops there and then proceed to conquer the entire continent.

Don't be scared by big ROTW nations, you are France! Your military is better than that of any of the Indian big boys so even if you get in a war with 2 big Indian nations you should still be able to win easily as your troops are better and you should have a tech edge in the first war.

Besides, there are a lot of forts in South India and the AI rarely upgrades them. That means that it is quite easy to invade Vij by sea (chart a province, land 50K troops, blockade and start sieging). Each fort will give you a good amount of WS and nobody cares about you conquering Hindus.

Lastly, the best way of making money is still to have an unbroken chain from Ivory Coast, Cape, Zanzibar, India, China.

You should really stop focusing so much on Europe and focus more on expanding towards ROTW. Europe has too much development concentrated on too few religions and cultures to be worth conquering much without max absolutism and the ROI there isn't the best. Compare this to ROTW where, except for the Muslims, most culture groups and religions are smaller and more fragmented -- meaning less AE and with weaker nations -- while also having excellent trade goods and ducats that flow towards Europe.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

Does anyone have any input which government reforms are best per tier with WC in mind? Cheers.