World Conquest Advice

[Travis_Bickle]

Hi there,

I have slowly been building myself up to a World Conquest as France. I stopped playing EU4 for many years, but now in 3 successive French saves I've gone from just owning western Europe > Mare Nostrum to on this current version the brink of Better than Napoleon and Mare Nostrum with 40 years left. In the mean time, with the help of the good people of this forum, I've understood much better game mechanics that I was weak on.

After I complete this save, I would really like the next save to be a World Conquest. My intention is to play very, very slowly, and micromanage every part of my game because I generally play too fast and forget to do some things. As such, I want to make sure I get every aspect of my game right.

World Conquest still seems quite daunting, but I have indeed noticed if you are in a strong position come Age of Absolutism, you can swallow whole countries whole with the right ideas and Absolutism.

Regardless, there are some things I am unsure of and I would most appreciate any help.

1) How big do you need to be by 1600? Realising how amazing the Imperialism CB, Absolutism, ideas with reduced province and coring costs are, every war before hand seems inefficient unless it's following your mission tree. However, I still think it is necessary to expand more so that you are powerful enough by 1600 to really kick on.

2) Governing Capacity. So I realise the right buildings really help, but I still find that Governing Capacity can be an issue. How do you guys manage it, and how much over GC is acceptable?

3) Economy. This is the weakest part of my game. I find that pre 1600 I'm strapped for cash hiring advisors to keep up on Admn/Dip points and keep my army strong. I find that post 1600 I am strapped for cash funding major wars and fielding very large armies. I don't seem to be able to find the cash to build loads of buildings. My production income is always relatively low. Any ideas on what I could do differently?

4) Colonisation. My general strategy as France is to let Spain do colonising then PU them via the mission tree. Problem is in the last save they didn't colonise much (sadly I had to war them, my mistake, but I ended up harming them too much lol) and we all got eaten in the Americas by a huge Thirteen Colonies/Florida (again, my fault). How much should I aim to colonise as France? I find it's again, inefficient because I can't settle colonies quicker than GB/Spain/Portugal and they always end up getting the treaty before I do. I don't want to be continually excommunicated by the Pope.

5) Speaking of PUs, I have good success at getting my dynasty on major nations but I don't seem to be able to ever PU them. Are PUs a necessary part of WC or not?

6) Ideas. This ties in a bit with above. I never take Influence because I don't like vassal feeding too much. But I guess that's a big part of WC? What happens when Vassals take ages and loads of diplo points to annex? I guess it's still better than loads of Admin. points...

Regardless, my ideas as France are usually: Humanist (no religious wars), Diplomatic, Exploration (that later gets dumped), Admin, Offensive, Quantity (yes, I think it's necessary), Quality, Economic and then something else after Exploration is gone. What do you think?

7) CB. I've always wanted to go Revolutionary France but in my saves the Revolution always seems to die out very early. Is the Revolutionary CB still okay for WC?

8) Big nations. This is probably the biggest debate I have with myself. I've seen countless guides that say eat the small first, but I find as France, particularly given the HRE and not many easy targets, it helps A LOT to take England out early (avoiding them colonising) and the HRE. Even damaging Spain, even if you want to PU them, means that you have a free run at Western Europe and most of the Americas. I'm not sure, but I think when I do try my WC save I'll definitely try and wipe out England as quick as possible.

Any advice on these 8 points would seriously help me and I would be most appreciative.

Thank you guys!

 

[EarlKonrad]

1) I've often heard that if you have 2K in 1600 than you have enough for a WC. The whole point of the first 150 isn't yo get as much dev as possible but rather getting yourself in the best possible position to conquer the whole world when Absolutism hits. That is to say that you want to be getting borders with as many countries as possible, have presence in Asia, India and Africa and, if at all possible, don't let the Big Boys grow too strong.

2) At tech lvl 23 all of your GC problems should be over. GC manufactory + Town Hall is enough to plummet the GC cost down to basically nothing. Besides that, don't make low dev regions estates, spend GO in GC if you really need it. Shortly after 1.30 Reman (yes, the one from Youtube) posted some thoughts on GC here in the forum using his France WC as an example of how this mechanic works in WCs. You might want to search for that post.

3) POST SCREENSHOTS SHOWING YOUR ECONOMY IF YOU WANT HELP WITH IT. I'm serious. It is nearly impossible yo help you without seeing how much you are making, your trade share, etc. Rule of thumb is that your economy will boom after you manage to get those manufactories going (anything above 0.40 ducats is amazing) and get to conquer your home trade node. Aiming for mine golds early os is always helpful as well. There are also ways of saving ducats (don't building anything aside from manufactories, temple/workshops on 0.10+ provinces). Always asking for ducats can also help.

But hey, eco pre-1600 isn't all. In my only WC (as Yuan) I was making -2.7 ducats a month until I embraced Global Trade, wasn't able to build anything the entire half of the game and I was fine. As you start to eat the world, your economy will skyrocket.

4) If you want to Colonize, don't do much. Just enough to spawn CNs and let them get 10 provinces. Let the other colonize for you. It is also worth going for those Godforsaken islands yourself so you later don't have to take them from the countries you'll be eating.

I'll address your other points later; cheers!

 

[jdavis86]

Regarding economy, I think it's easy sometimes to overestimate the value of taking land, when ducats are perhaps more valuable.

Perhaps a niche example, but look at Muscovy. Surrounded by low dev, wrong culture, wrong religion. Plus they hit GC early and easily. So instead of taking bad land, just take all their ducats. Also, don't be afraid to draw out wars to take ducats from their allies too!

 

[Big Bad France]

I think it's a good idea to have exclaves and take quantity ideas somewhere around the 5th or 6th idea. That gives you enough force limit to wage multiple wars simultaneously in different theatres. Plus, manpower is at a premium in the current patch because if you run low you have to hire merc companies with less than ideal compositions.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

1) I've often heard that if you have 2K in 1600 than you have enough for a WC. The whole point of the first 150 isn't yo get as much dev as possible but rather getting yourself in the best possible position to conquer the whole world when Absolutism hits. That is to say that you want to be getting borders with as many countries as possible, have presence in Asia, India and Africa and, if at all possible, don't let the Big Boys grow too strong.

2) At tech lvl 23 all of your GC problems should be over. GC manufactory + Town Hall is enough to plummet the GC cost down to basically nothing. Besides that, don't make low dev regions estates, spend GO in GC if you really need it. Shortly after 1.30 Reman (yes, the one from Youtube) posted some thoughts on GC here in the forum using his France WC as an example of how this mechanic works in WCs. You might want to search for that post.

3) POST SCREENSHOTS SHOWING YOUR ECONOMY IF YOU WANT HELP WITH IT. I'm serious. It is nearly impossible yo help you without seeing how much you are making, your trade share, etc. Rule of thumb is that your economy will boom after you manage to get those manufactories going (anything above 0.40 ducats is amazing) and get to conquer your home trade node. Aiming for mine golds early os is always helpful as well. There are also ways of saving ducats (don't building anything aside from manufactories, temple/workshops on 0.10+ provinces). Always asking for ducats can also help.

But hey, eco pre-1600 isn't all. In my only WC (as Yuan) I was making -2.7 ducats a month until I embraced Global Trade, wasn't able to build anything the entire half of the game and I was fine. As you start to eat the world, your economy will skyrocket.

4) If you want to Colonize, don't do much. Just enough to spawn CNs and let them get 10 provinces. Let the other colonize for you. It is also worth going for those Godforsaken islands yourself so you later don't have to take them from the countries you'll be eating.

I'll address your other points later; cheers!

Thank you very much for responding.

1) Yes, I know I have to try and get myself a good economic base and secure avenues for expansion. I feel like as France, this is even more important since you're neighbouring countries that will inevitably rack up high AE against you until the HRE is dismantled.

2) I still struggle. I've searched for the post and can't find it, but I will trust next time that building the necessary building ASAP keeps me stable.

3) I will do next time, thank you. Do you recommend building as many manufactories as possible then? But don't they take up the Governing Capacity manufactory? I don't believe you can build both.

I have noticed pre-1600 debt can be paid off very easily by expanding, so I've not been shy of taking a few loans.

4) I was thinking this, but the problem is I feel I need Diplo as the first idea (All those vassals to annex and many nations to keep positive relations with to avoid coalition), and I need Humanist in the second idea to prevent the Religious Wars. So by the time I get round to Exploration, which will coincide with me already being over Dip 7 tech, Portugal already have claimed the Caribbean, sometimes even Colombia, and I am out of range for Florida or Mexico.

Look forward to anymore comments you have.

Regarding economy, I think it's easy sometimes to overestimate the value of taking land, when ducats are perhaps more valuable.

Perhaps a niche example, but look at Muscovy. Surrounded by low dev, wrong culture, wrong religion. Plus they hit GC early and easily. So instead of taking bad land, just take all their ducats. Also, don't be afraid to draw out wars to take ducats from their allies too!

I've realised this too. Even if you are trying to weaken enemies, consistently taking full ducats and just a few provinces and then a few years later doing it again pretty much hampers their development or expansion because they're always in debt.

I think I'll do that as a rule next time.

I think it's a good idea to have exclaves and take quantity ideas somewhere around the 5th or 6th idea. That gives you enough force limit to wage multiple wars simultaneously in different theatres. Plus, manpower is at a premium in the current patch because if you run low you have to hire merc companies with less than ideal compositions.

My thinking was that exclaves are a bit hard to defend and they get annoying with rebels so it was far easier to keep most of my land connected (of course I made an exception for West Africa and South India).

 

[mysticdueler]

I wish you the best of luck! Every time I start to control around half the world I start to get really bored, and the prospect of slogging through the rest can feel more like work than playing. To this day I’ve never done a WC and don’t know if I ever will.

And, even if you don’t succeed the first time, you’ll most likely learn lots about the process and get better for your next run.

 

[EarlKonrad]

I'm back.

5) Necessary? No, but they can help you a ton. If you can get a PU on the other colonizers than you are set for life. Having strong PUs make it less likely that coalitions will try to kill you, is less land for you to core and less nations for you to fight against. Of course, if you are going for a one tag then you might want to not get PUs as they have a heck of a log time to integrate.

6) You can do a WC without relying on vassals without many issues. The great thing about getting vassals is that late game with influence +adm policy you can integrate vassals really cheap and you can take more land in wars without suffering from more than 100% OE (by giving your vassals the land you conquered). That said, you don't have to rely on vassals and can go for a straight one tag WC but be warned that it will be strain on your adm.

Your idea order seems good enough. Personally I'd open with Diplo and than get Humanist. Why? Because diplo points are less important in the very early game so you can unlock both Elan! and your second idea group faster (to say nothing of the fact that coring is very expensive in Europe). Additionally, you should forgone Eco and go with Aristocratic - the +1 siege pip is really good, the AT decay will help with faster sieges and the +33% Manpower with constant wars.

7) Don't bother with the Revolution. It comes too late and takes too long to embrace to be of any meaningful use. It will only slow you down. You could go for it if it spawns inside your territory and start wrecking your nation. My advice would be to make a backup save when the Age of Revolutions hit so you can go back in case something goes wrong with the revolution (it is no fun having a game wrecked because of a new mechanic that you don't yet have a firm grasp of).

8) I'd say go for England and Spain but leave the HRE alone, unless the Emperor is extremely weak. You have to think of a WC as a survival-Marathon. You have a set limit of resources that are constantly getting depleted and it is up to you to make them last until the end of the race. By diverting your attention against strong nations instead of preying on the weaker ones, you are burning many more resources (mainly ducats and manpower) without necessarily having a Rateof Investment to justify such expenses. There is also the factor of time; fighting against the HRE takes significantly more time than going up against medium sized nations.

Some additional advices!

Don't be shy to take more than 100% OE and truce break in the late game as you may have to do this.

A very effective way of conquering after 100% Absolutism is to gobble a nation without eating it all at once. By surrounding it with your territory, you make it harder for them to finde allies (distance maluses) and that much easier to eat it in subsequent wars (you can position more troops around them to start sieging day one). It also prevents them from expanding or being killed. Another good tactic is to cut a nation in half or shred it so that it has as few neighboring provinces as possible.

Once you start expanding like mad, forts are your top priority; ideally you should never have to siege the same fort twice.

Went around hunting and found this messages that may interest you:

Are trade companies still worth it?

In this patch they really hammered TC's with regard to gov capacity and expansion. In my view a territory is now more viable as it has less downsides on both manpower and gov cap with the 50% autonomy and only 25% gov cap increase. At least if...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Hegemonies and Negative opinion modifier

SO I am getting -100 negative opinions modifier for my own subjects for becoming a hegemon. Seriously, why is this a thing? Is this a design flaw or is it working as intended? If this is indeed working as intended, screw this mechanic . Atleast...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Globally, is governance capacity a nerf compared to previous states limits ?

IE, do you end up typically having less states than previously ?

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Revolutionary Empire worth it?

I've heard a lot of people really love being the Revolutionary target, so when the center of revolution showed up in my capital this game I decided to give it a try. Result: Really like it when at war with countries that haven't embraced the...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

I will never see a Hegemon; Make the numbers relative to other powers

Hello everybody So, the hegemon thing is pretty nice, and adds a bit of extra stuff in the late game, which has been more or less a free-for-all map painter. Yet I will never see a Hegemon. I mainly play with a friend or in single player and the...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Lastly, to give you an idea on how fast you can expand once you go full on expansion mode, here are some images from my Oirat WC (1.29 having to deal with terr cor). Of course, hordes can expand much, much faster than monarchies so bear that in mind.

 

[Elisha]

I haven't really played since 1.30, but I think WC advice hasn't changed much, so here are my 2 cents for a first WC.

1)As others here said, you don't need to be huge by 1600 if you're not trying to speedrun. Aim for 2-3k, but so long as you have over 1k it's doable.
Instead focus on building a big power base, with high income and FL (decent manpower is also more important now since the merc changes).

2)Build your economy up, then build town halls in every province. A territory with town hall gives virtually no GC, so if you have enough money to spam them you can conquer as much as you want.

3)It seems like most of your problems stem from economy problems, so I believe this is the most important piece of advice for you.
Early game, build churches and workshops on good land. Anything over 0.1 ducats a month is generally worth it, especially for workshops as they scale much better with trade good increses and manufacturies.

Build manufacturies everywhere that you have stated, they're a great source of cash since they stack with workshops, and increase your trade value on top of production. The 2 exceptions are glass gems and paper provinces, where state houses are twice as effective so if you lack GC you shuold build them, and food provinces, particularly low value grain and fish, where the soldier household gives a lot of MP.

The second important thing is securing a good trade node. As france, you want to secure the English channel genoa, seville, or any combination of these 3. Then move your trade capital to this good node, and begin making good money.
Especially later in the game once manufacturies are built and trade starts flowing into europe from asia and the americas, trade is the best way of making money.

3rd, I strongly recommend selling land early game to pay for your buildings and wars. I like seizing land, then after 5 years selling land and immediatly seizing again, to stay at a constant 20-25 CL. This gives you buckets of ducats early game, and allows you to get your economy rolling.

4)Colonisation. My recommendation is just don't.
It takes money, dip power to get the necessary ideas and admirals, opportunity cost because you don't have a different idea, and you need to ship part of your army to the new world. In return, you get nearly nothing. It takes a long time to get colonies to a "self sufficient" stage, and even after their main benefit is a merchant that you can easily get from a TC for a fraction of the cost. The only reason to go exploration is to open up new avenues to war, but as france you can just go through the middle east anyway.
Tldr: don't colonize.

5)If you have share a dynasty with a nation, you can claim their throne wthen they have no heir and enforce a PU. This is the main way of getting them, not RNG luck.
PU's are helpful, but not at all necessary. After all, some of the strongest countries for WC aren't christians, and can't get them at all.

6)Ideas. Overall, your picks seem solid. I wouldn't take humanist first however unless you're rushing into heathen land, because pre reformation everything is right religion anyway.
If you're worried about the reformation pick humanist second, you won't finish it much later because you anyway need to get to admin tech 7 before finishing your first idea group.
About influence, vassal feeding is really good when you can get a lot of reconquest CB, so you can go that route and release OPM vassals like northumberland and Catalonia. But it's also not necessary, and if it's not your playstyle you can not pick it all game and be totally fine.

7)If the revoulution spawns in your land and it gives it all high autonomy you might be forced revoulutionary, but good old imperialism CB works just fine.

8)I agree about killing England early, it's definitely worth it because of the low AE. Castile you can PU later, so you can leave them alone if you want.
You can kill ottomans and mamluks early game, to spread out AE and stop them from becoming a pain. But it's not necessary, and if you wait until absolotusim you'll be able to finish them off in a handfull of wars.

A genraral tip- after absolutism you want to be in several wars at once, so you're constantly coring land while you're finishing your next war.
Good luck in your attempt, and I hope you ahve fun!

 

[Travis_Bickle]

You guys are awesome, thanks. I'll respond one by one.

I wish you the best of luck! Every time I start to control around half the world I start to get really bored, and the prospect of slogging through the rest can feel more like work than playing. To this day I’ve never done a WC and don’t know if I ever will.

And, even if you don’t succeed the first time, you’ll most likely learn lots about the process and get better for your next run.

I also actually notice after I get beyond what I consider "realistic", I feel bored. I get most joy out of what I've done on my current save, trying to recreate the exact (+ Moscow + Ottoman land) borders of Napoleon at his peak or recreate the British Empire at its peak.

This being said, WC is a mental challenge and I like challenges. I think that I have the general capability to do it, but I want to test the mental side.

 

[EarlKonrad]

3) I will do next time, thank you. Do you recommend building as many manufactories as possible then? But don't they take up the Governing Capacity manufactory? I don't believe you can build both.

I have noticed pre-1600 debt can be paid off very easily by expanding, so I've not been shy of taking a few loans.

4) I was thinking this, but the problem is I feel I need Diplo as the first idea (All those vassals to annex and many nations to keep positive relations with to avoid coalition), and I need Humanist in the second idea to prevent the Religious Wars. So by the time I get round to Exploration, which will coincide with me already being over Dip 7 tech, Portugal already have claimed the Caribbean, sometimes even Colombia, and I am out of range for Florida or Mexico.

I've been forgoing glass/gems/paper manufactories so that I can build the GC manufactory instead. I don't know how good this is as you are forgoing some of the best ducats generating manufactories in order to reduce LA and GC. As GC can become a problem and the more available GC you have the more you can core, I'd say go for it. Besides, you can also build the GC manufactory on low dev land with bad trade goods (fish, grain, livestock) and you will still get a good return.

France simply can't rush colonization. You don't have the range to colonize before dip tech 7 unless you go for Portugal early on. I always felt that the best use for colonists for France is to go for Africa and then India. If you can secure the Cape of Good Gope you will get a head-start on pushing ducats into Europe.

Oh, one last thing. If you have Rule Britannia, by the love of all that is sacred be prepared to mass build Furnace houses as soon as coal spawn and get as many coal producing provinces as possible without disrupting your game. Coal is incredibly strong and will make you tons of ducats instantly.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

I'm back.

5) Necessary? No, but they can help you a ton. If you can get a PU on the other colonizers than you are set for life. Having strong PUs make it less likely that coalitions will try to kill you, is less land for you to core and less nations for you to fight against. Of course, if you are going for a one tag then you might want to not get PUs as they have a heck of a log time to integrate.

6) You can do a WC without relying on vassals without many issues. The great thing about getting vassals is that late game with influence +adm policy you can integrate vassals really cheap and you can take more land in wars without suffering from more than 100% OE (by giving your vassals the land you conquered). That said, you don't have to rely on vassals and can go for a straight one tag WC but be warned that it will be strain on your adm.

Your idea order seems good enough. Personally I'd open with Diplo and than get Humanist. Why? Because diplo points are less important in the very early game so you can unlock both Elan! and your second idea group faster (to say nothing of the fact that coring is very expensive in Europe). Additionally, you should forgone Eco and go with Aristocratic - the +1 siege pip is really good, the AT decay will help with faster sieges and the +33% Manpower with constant wars.

7) Don't bother with the Revolution. It comes too late and takes too long to embrace to be of any meaningful use. It will only slow you down. You could go for it if it spawns inside your territory and start wrecking your nation. My advice would be to make a backup save when the Age of Revolutions hit so you can go back in case something goes wrong with the revolution (it is no fun having a game wrecked because of a new mechanic that you don't yet have a firm grasp of).

8) I'd say go for England and Spain but leave the HRE alone, unless the Emperor is extremely weak. You have to think of a WC as a survival-Marathon. You have a set limit of resources that are constantly getting depleted and it is up to you to make them last until the end of the race. By diverting your attention against strong nations instead of preying on the weaker ones, you are burning many more resources (mainly ducats and manpower) without necessarily having a Rateof Investment to justify such expenses. There is also the factor of time; fighting against the HRE takes significantly more time than going up against medium sized nations.

Some additional advices!

Don't be shy to take more than 100% OE and truce break in the late game as you may have to do this.

A very effective way of conquering after 100% Absolutism is to gobble a nation without eating it all at once. By surrounding it with your territory, you make it harder for them to finde allies (distance maluses) and that much easier to eat it in subsequent wars (you can position more troops around them to start sieging day one). It also prevents them from expanding or being killed. Another good tactic is to cut a nation in half or shred it so that it has as few neighboring provinces as possible.

Once you start expanding like mad, forts are your top priority; ideally you should never have to siege the same fort twice.

Went around hunting and found this messages that may interest you:

Are trade companies still worth it?

In this patch they really hammered TC's with regard to gov capacity and expansion. In my view a territory is now more viable as it has less downsides on both manpower and gov cap with the 50% autonomy and only 25% gov cap increase. At least if...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Hegemonies and Negative opinion modifier

SO I am getting -100 negative opinions modifier for my own subjects for becoming a hegemon. Seriously, why is this a thing? Is this a design flaw or is it working as intended? If this is indeed working as intended, screw this mechanic . Atleast...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Globally, is governance capacity a nerf compared to previous states limits ?

IE, do you end up typically having less states than previously ?

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Revolutionary Empire worth it?

I've heard a lot of people really love being the Revolutionary target, so when the center of revolution showed up in my capital this game I decided to give it a try. Result: Really like it when at war with countries that haven't embraced the...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

I will never see a Hegemon; Make the numbers relative to other powers

Hello everybody So, the hegemon thing is pretty nice, and adds a bit of extra stuff in the late game, which has been more or less a free-for-all map painter. Yet I will never see a Hegemon. I mainly play with a friend or in single player and the...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Lastly, to give you an idea on how fast you can expand once you go full on expansion mode, here are some images from my Oirat WC (1.29 having to deal with terr cor). Of course, hordes can expand much, much faster than monarchies so bear that in mind.

I just notice with the Castile PU (and last time I got Aragon too) it took over 100 years to get them both integrated and I had the Diplomatic Reputation boost and a Diplomatic advisor employed at all times. So to do that with say PLC or Russia must be nuts. That being said, the free manpower and units really does help fight wars.

I am, on this Better than Napoleon run, managing OE well aside from the corruption. I generally try to balance it so that I'm not far over 100% at one time, even if that means sitting on a nation with 100% warscore for a year whilst I fight elsewhere. My soldiers are good enough that rebels can be dealt with very quickly.

I do always go Diplo first, Humanist second. My diplo points often struggle early on because I always go for the full BI, helping them (even just financially) when they Liege suicide so I have to convert the Dutch and Belgian provinces. I don't want to move my capital. But for me that's worth it.

To be honest, regarding the HRE, In my last saves I've dismantled them very early and not found it hard. Getting all electors to ally you is hard because they often rival each other, but otherwise, getting Bohemia/PLC to help me beat up Austria has never been an issue and I've usually got Castile/Aragon under a PU by then. After that, the HRE is free real estate. My problem is that a weakened HRE allows the Ottomans to expand like nuts so I generally assess on a game-by-game status.

Your advice on forts is good yes, I think from now on in peace deals I'll go for forts + cash earlier on.

Thank you very, very much for your post and all the effort. I really appreciate it.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

I've been forgoing glass/gems/paper manufactories so that I can build the GC manufactory instead. I don't know how good this is as you are forgoing some of the best ducats generating manufactories in order to reduce LA and GC. As GC can become a problem and the more available GC you have the more you can core, I'd say go for it. Besides, you can also build the GC manufactory on low dev land with bad trade goods (fish, grain, livestock) and you will still get a good return.

France simply can't rush colonization. You don't have the range to colonize before dip tech 7 unless you go for Portugal early on. I always felt that the best use for colonists for France is to go for Africa and then India. If you can secure the Cape of Good Gope you will get a head-start on pushing ducats into Europe.

Oh, one last thing. If you have Rule Britannia, by the love of all that is sacred be prepared to mass build Furnace houses as soon as coal spawn and get as many coal producing provinces as possible without disrupting your game. Coal is incredibly strong and will make you tons of ducats instantly.

I had no idea about the coal furnace houses. Thank you.

In this save I went for West Africa and pretty much got West Africa all for myself. I got to India way too late, on the WC save I will try to get their earlier.

What I've previously done with India is given the land to Castile as sometimes I'm not in coring range. On my best colonisation of India, I actually no-CB'd whoever owned the Maldives and used that as a stop point.

For me, right now, GC is my biggest problem since it stops me stating more land and getting more money/men that way.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

I haven't really played since 1.30, but I think WC advice hasn't changed much, so here are my 2 cents for a first WC.

1)As others here said, you don't need to be huge by 1600 if you're not trying to speedrun. Aim for 2-3k, but so long as you have over 1k it's doable.
Instead focus on building a big power base, with high income and FL (decent manpower is also more important now since the merc changes).

2)Build your economy up, then build town halls in every province. A territory with town hall gives virtually no GC, so if you have enough money to spam them you can conquer as much as you want.

3)It seems like most of your problems stem from economy problems, so I believe this is the most important piece of advice for you.
Early game, build churches and workshops on good land. Anything over 0.1 ducats a month is generally worth it, especially for workshops as they scale much better with trade good increses and manufacturies.

Build manufacturies everywhere that you have stated, they're a great source of cash since they stack with workshops, and increase your trade value on top of production. The 2 exceptions are glass gems and paper provinces, where state houses are twice as effective so if you lack GC you shuold build them, and food provinces, particularly low value grain and fish, where the soldier household gives a lot of MP.

The second important thing is securing a good trade node. As france, you want to secure the English channel genoa, seville, or any combination of these 3. Then move your trade capital to this good node, and begin making good money.
Especially later in the game once manufacturies are built and trade starts flowing into europe from asia and the americas, trade is the best way of making money.

3rd, I strongly recommend selling land early game to pay for your buildings and wars. I like seizing land, then after 5 years selling land and immediatly seizing again, to stay at a constant 20-25 CL. This gives you buckets of ducats early game, and allows you to get your economy rolling.

4)Colonisation. My recommendation is just don't.
It takes money, dip power to get the necessary ideas and admirals, opportunity cost because you don't have a different idea, and you need to ship part of your army to the new world. In return, you get nearly nothing. It takes a long time to get colonies to a "self sufficient" stage, and even after their main benefit is a merchant that you can easily get from a TC for a fraction of the cost. The only reason to go exploration is to open up new avenues to war, but as france you can just go through the middle east anyway.
Tldr: don't colonize.

5)If you have share a dynasty with a nation, you can claim their throne wthen they have no heir and enforce a PU. This is the main way of getting them, not RNG luck.
PU's are helpful, but not at all necessary. After all, some of the strongest countries for WC aren't christians, and can't get them at all.

6)Ideas. Overall, your picks seem solid. I wouldn't take humanist first however unless you're rushing into heathen land, because pre reformation everything is right religion anyway.
If you're worried about the reformation pick humanist second, you won't finish it much later because you anyway need to get to admin tech 7 before finishing your first idea group.
About influence, vassal feeding is really good when you can get a lot of reconquest CB, so you can go that route and release OPM vassals like northumberland and Catalonia. But it's also not necessary, and if it's not your playstyle you can not pick it all game and be totally fine.

7)If the revoulution spawns in your land and it gives it all high autonomy you might be forced revoulutionary, but good old imperialism CB works just fine.

8)I agree about killing England early, it's definitely worth it because of the low AE. Castile you can PU later, so you can leave them alone if you want.
You can kill ottomans and mamluks early game, to spread out AE and stop them from becoming a pain. But it's not necessary, and if you wait until absolotusim you'll be able to finish them off in a handfull of wars.

A genraral tip- after absolutism you want to be in several wars at once, so you're constantly coring land while you're finishing your next war.
Good luck in your attempt, and I hope you ahve fun!

Generally, I can take France to World Power no.1 by early 1500s. I think from what you guys are saying, I mess up there and don't build many buildings. Since I always try and get the BI, I move my trading port early to Gand or Amsterdam and focus on the English channel. Genoa is good but not as good until you control the trade coming through Sevilla.

I would say that yes, most of my problems are economic. I feel like the sign of a strong economy is that you can field a force limit army, force limit navy, hire advisors and root out AE corruption at the same time. I am never able to do that with my economy. The only time I was ever swimming in money is when I PU'd a heavy colonising Spain and basically owned 3/4's of the Americas.

OK regarding annexing colonising countries. My worry is, let's say Portugal in my current save, they own the whole of South America minus a small colonial nation I have in Colombia. If I war them and can't annex the whole of Portugal at once, doesn't that mean their subjects will declare independence on them? If I were able to annex Portugal that would be huge.

I'm always a bit wary of a super Ottomans that have 500k men or something. I've seen them in Italy before, but I realise it's not efficient for me to take them out very early when I'm trying to secure Provence (for Naples PU), Aragon (before Iberian Wedding) and obviously kicking the English off the continent.

 

[Elisha]

Generally, I can take France to World Power no.1 by early 1500s. I think from what you guys are saying, I mess up there and don't build many buildings.

It's good that you can grow yourself up fast, just don't wreck you nation doing so. It's more important to become strong than to become big.
As france you shouldn't be relying on mercs much early on, because you have very high starting MP, vassals to soak up damage, and very good generals. Another tip for early econ, if you see that you do need debt after all, take out 1% interest loans from the burghers. Much better rate than the banks filthy 4%

OK regarding annexing colonising countries. My worry is, let's say Portugal in my current save, they own the whole of South America minus a small colonial nation I have in Colombia. If I war them and can't annex the whole of Portugal at once, doesn't that mean their subjects will declare independence on them? If I were able to annex Portugal that would be huge.

It can be hard to get enough warscore on colonizers in the last war. A way to avoid this is to actually leave them their mainland forts, so you can get more WS in the last war that actually annexes them. And if push comes to shove, you can sail an army to the new world to get that little bit more. If you're prepared this isn't so bad, but you need to remember to build a navy and all that. Slowed me down by like 15 years in my 1.29 Oirat run

 

[EarlKonrad]

Generally, I can take France to World Power no.1 by early 1500s. I think from what you guys are saying, I mess up there and don't build many buildings. Since I always try and get the BI, I move my trading port early to Gand or Amsterdam and focus on the English channel. Genoa is good but not as good until you control the trade coming through Sevilla.

I would say that yes, most of my problems are economic. I feel like the sign of a strong economy is that you can field a force limit army, force limit navy, hire advisors and root out AE corruption at the same time. I am never able to do that with my economy. The only time I was ever swimming in money is when I PU'd a heavy colonising Spain and basically owned 3/4's of the Americas.

OK regarding annexing colonising countries. My worry is, let's say Portugal in my current save, they own the whole of South America minus a small colonial nation I have in Colombia. If I war them and can't annex the whole of Portugal at once, doesn't that mean their subjects will declare independence on them? If I were able to annex Portugal that would be huge.

I'm always a bit wary of a super Ottomans that have 500k men or something. I've seen them in Italy before, but I realise it's not efficient for me to take them out very early when I'm trying to secure Provence (for Naples PU), Aragon (before Iberian Wedding) and obviously kicking the English off the continent.

I personally am never near my FL or NL unless either of them is below 100. I always try to have "just enough" soldiers and ships as they tend to have a hefty upkeep.

Subjects can only declare independence when they don't have a truce with their overlord. It just so happens that their truce with their overlord is the same as yours with their overlord so if you time it well you can always declare on the colonizer before the CNs have had the time to consider independence. Another advice on dealing with colonizers is to first ask for all of their European forts aside from one (so you can get high WS straight out of the game) and also all those annoying little islands. Leaving their European provinces for last is generally a good idea.

Ottomans still give me chill but the more you beat them the easier they become. What you want to do with Big Nations, like the Ottomans, Ming and whoever owns India is to kill them in a single war. The first war is going to be hell because you will annihilate their manpower, bleed their treasury dry, occupy all of their lands and make rebels spawn. Once this is done, peace out for maximum ducats, war reparation, and transfer trade power. They won't get any revanchism because they did not lose land, will have to deal with rebels and not enough troops to do so, may fall prey to some disaster and will certainly go bankrupt. Then, when the truce is up, start dismantling them fort by fort.

Ideally you want to start dismantling big empires when the seventeen hundreds rolls around. By then you should have enough troops and adm eff. to eat all of their provinces after three or four wars.

 

[LSF]

I dont have so much time to write everything I think on WCs, but Ill try to put the most imprtant things IMHO.

i) Dont expand like crazy in the same region during the beginning of the game. My 1st WC was with Ottomans you like so much. In my 2 first attempts I tried to expand too fast and had many coalitions wars. In my 3rd and succesful attempt I chose to expand in a more reasonable pace and fought just one coalition.

ii) On colonization. You dont need to worry about this. Just let Portugal, Spain, Britain and France to colonize for you. If you annex them late, remember you need more than one war, so take always the tiny islands in the oceans and colonies in Africa and SEA before. In the last war to annex them the ideal is they have all their provinces in Europe (for easier war management) and the WS needed to annex being close to 100% (like 90% e.g.). Dont let them be too small before the last war otherwise the colonies can declare independence.

iii) During wars, try to take the forts. The AI has a hard time building them.

iv) On ideas. The military ones are not the most importat ones in SP. I have 6 WCs (ottos, france, poland, timur, mewar, ming) and in all them I chose only 2 military ideas, Offensive + Defensive or Offensive + Quantity. Exploration is not so useful at all since others will colonize for you. Admin, Diplo and Influence I chose in all my WCs. Vassal feeding helps a lot in WCs. People dismiss Religious but it can be a good opener depending on your strategy. Even Espionage can be useful if you plan ahead what you will do. For example, in my Ottos WC I took Espionage as 1st idea group and relied a lot on fabricating claims to my vassals (the vassal claims cost only 15 and dont scale with number of claims, it also helped with terr corr but it isnt an issue anymore). Trade and Economics are also bad choices. You will have merchats from your TCs, no need for Trade. And Economics is useless, the benefits are small compared to the Admin mana spent (which is more useful for coring), and you wont Dev your provinces in a WC (unless your tag is not European, for on this case you dev for institutions, but only 2 or 3 times during all run).

v) I built manufactories in all provinces with trade flowing to my home node, even bad provinces or high autonomy ones, since autonomy didnt affect trade value (I dont remember if it changed with 1.30). But with the new buildings, choosing the GC manufactory or the manpower one in provinces with the right trade good is probably better.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

It's good that you can grow yourself up fast, just don't wreck you nation doing so. It's more important to become strong than to become big.
As france you shouldn't be relying on mercs much early on, because you have very high starting MP, vassals to soak up damage, and very good generals. Another tip for early econ, if you see that you do need debt after all, take out 1% interest loans from the burghers. Much better rate than the banks filthy 4%

It can be hard to get enough warscore on colonizers in the last war. A way to avoid this is to actually leave them their mainland forts, so you can get more WS in the last war that actually annexes them. And if push comes to shove, you can sail an army to the new world to get that little bit more. If you're prepared this isn't so bad, but you need to remember to build a navy and all that. Slowed me down by like 15 years in my 1.29 Oirat run

I generally rush to get fulfil the mission tree that gives me the PU over Castile. My feeling is that if I get the PU over Castile I'm pretty much set for the game. That requires Burgundy (BI), Provence (when excommunicated), Savoy, Milan (hopefully they're out of the HRE when the PU event fires) and Naples. It's not that hard. it can take a long time or be done within the first 50 years depending on RNG.

I also try and expand into Aragon before the Iberian wedding (releasing Catalonia as a vassal is amazing for reconquest cores), Brittany and England.

I personally am never near my FL or NL unless either of them is below 100. I always try to have "just enough" soldiers and ships as they tend to have a hefty upkeep.

Subjects can only declare independence when they don't have a truce with their overlord. It just so happens that their truce with their overlord is the same as yours with their overlord so if you time it well you can always declare on the colonizer before the CNs have had the time to consider independence. Another advice on dealing with colonizers is to first ask for all of their European forts aside from one (so you can get high WS straight out of the game) and also all those annoying little islands. Leaving their European provinces for last is generally a good idea.

Ottomans still give me chill but the more you beat them the easier they become. What you want to do with Big Nations, like the Ottomans, Ming and whoever owns India is to kill them in a single war. The first war is going to be hell because you will annihilate their manpower, bleed their treasury dry, occupy all of their lands and make rebels spawn. Once this is done, peace out for maximum ducats, war reparation, and transfer trade power. They won't get any revanchism because they did not lose land, will have to deal with rebels and not enough troops to do so, may fall prey to some disaster and will certainly go bankrupt. Then, when the truce is up, start dismantling them fort by fort.

Ideally you want to start dismantling big empires when the seventeen hundreds rolls around. By then you should have enough troops and adm eff. to eat all of their provinces after three or four wars.

This is fantastic advice, thank you. I had no idea about the truces.

I dont have so much time to write everything I think on WCs, but Ill try to put the most imprtant things IMHO.

i) Dont expand like crazy in the same region during the beginning of the game. My 1st WC was with Ottomans you like so much. In my 2 first attempts I tried to expand too fast and had many coalitions wars. In my 3rd and succesful attempt I chose to expand in a more reasonable pace and fought just one coalition.

ii) On colonization. You dont need to worry about this. Just let Portugal, Spain, Britain and France to colonize for you. If you annex them late, remember you need more than one war, so take always the tiny islands in the oceans and colonies in Africa and SEA before. In the last war to annex them the ideal is they have all their provinces in Europe (for easier war management) and the WS needed to annex being close to 100% (like 90% e.g.). Dont let them be too small before the last war otherwise the colonies can declare independence.

iii) During wars, try to take the forts. The AI has a hard time building them.

iv) On ideas. The military ones are not the most importat ones in SP. I have 6 WCs (ottos, france, poland, timur, mewar, ming) and in all them I chose only 2 military ideas, Offensive + Defensive or Offensive + Quantity. Exploration is not so useful at all since others will colonize for you. Admin, Diplo and Influence I chose in all my WCs. Vassal feeding helps a lot in WCs. People dismiss Religious but it can be a good opener depending on your strategy. Even Espionage can be useful if you plan ahead what you will do. For example, in my Ottos WC I took Espionage as 1st idea group and relied a lot on fabricating claims to my vassals (the vassal claims cost only 15 and dont scale with number of claims, it also helped with terr corr but it isnt an issue anymore). Trade and Economics are also bad choices. You will have merchats from your TCs, no need for Trade. And Economics is useless, the benefits are small compared to the Admin mana spent (which is more useful for coring), and you wont Dev your provinces in a WC (unless your tag is not European, for on this case you dev for institutions, but only 2 or 3 times during all run).

v) I built manufactories in all provinces with trade flowing to my home node, even bad provinces or high autonomy ones, since autonomy didnt affect trade value (I dont remember if it changed with 1.30). But with the new buildings, choosing the GC manufactory or the manpower one in provinces with the right trade good is probably better.

I'm increasingly coming round to just leaving colonisation. What I might do is take the Quest for the New World idea just so I can get that progress in the Mission Tree, and then dump it for something else.

Seriously you guys are all awesome, thanks for the help.

 

[atwix]

for economy advice i'll give the usual for France. KILL ENGLAND. Period.

Ideal starting position is Burgundy being friendly to you, ally them. Bonus points if Castille allies you. Reconquest england and promise burgundy and castille land. You can fight war from Scotland ally, but you can also wait for second war for that. Get all channel provinces back, give Burgundy Calais. Take one province from Portugal to extend coring range. Leave alliance intact beween england and portugal. Move trade capital to CHANNEL and build trade fleet.

Get (full) Burgundian inheritance, invade England again from Scotland and get COT like London. Take azores now and use it as jump point to colonize caribbean.

Monopolize english channel node in the end, then start conquering upstream of channel node trade nodes. aka, go for gold coast, an attack on denmark for Norway subject wit transfer subject age objective if able, and gobble up ally scotland and Ireland when able.

Roll in dosh from getting traders from your CN in carribean and east america and maybe canada. Try playing union game on Portugal and Castille/spain after, or use mission tree force union cb from emperor dlc on spain later on.

Build all workshops and manufactories everywhere.

Keep coqnuering trade nodes upstream of channel node. Hop from gold coast into colonising cape good hope, then go for zanzibar, then India/Malacca trade node and China in the end. Steer all trade with traders from trade companies towards channel in one big chain.

Another economy advice: do NOT take unneccesary battles. ONLY fight battles if 1. a fort of yours is being sieged and has positive chance to fall. 2. you are doing war on superiority cb and can farm warscore from engaging tiny stacks 3. if you are *guaranteed* to wipe out the enemy. If you run out of manpower as France, you are doing it wrong. If you need mercs as france, you are doing it wrong. Major mistake of many people is take loads of unnecessary battles leading to loads of debt due to needing mercs. I am a *VERY* aggressive player who plays tiny nations, and I almost never need mercs, unless some battles really goo poorly due to 9-1 shock roll in my face on first shock phase. I do hire mercs if there is 2siege pip leader. SIEGE pips win wars, no matter what people say. Not battles (if you don't play horde or holy war nation).

I am willing to give detailed advice when your campaign is running @Travis_Bickle as our playstyles seem same. I am also willing to do this in private conversation. But its always best to start campaign and post detailed screenshots here on topics you want advice on.

 

[Blizzrd33]

Where I think I can add some value, I've replied to your initial questions below

1) How big do you need to be by 1600? Realising how amazing the Imperialism CB, Absolutism, ideas with reduced province and coring costs are, every war before hand seems inefficient unless it's following your mission tree. However, I still think it is necessary to expand more so that you are powerful enough by 1600 to really kick on.

In 1600:
3k dev is very good
2k is good
Anything less than 2k could still possibly WC, but obviously it gets harder with less of a base.

3) Economy. This is the weakest part of my game. I find that pre 1600 I'm strapped for cash hiring advisors to keep up on Admn/Dip points and keep my army strong. I find that post 1600 I am strapped for cash funding major wars and fielding very large armies. I don't seem to be able to find the cash to build loads of buildings. My production income is always relatively low. Any ideas on what I could do differently?

Trade will be your major source of income as you head for WC, not taxes or production. Dominate a trade node (preferably one of the three end nodes, don't be afraid to move your main trade city) via conquest and funnel trade from the lands you conquer towards your best trade node. Trade companies are very good in a WC, you'll want lots of them eventually.

4) Colonisation. My general strategy as France is to let Spain do colonising then PU them via the mission tree. Problem is in the last save they didn't colonise much (sadly I had to war them, my mistake, but I ended up harming them too much lol) and we all got eaten in the Americas by a huge Thirteen Colonies/Florida (again, my fault). How much should I aim to colonise as France? I find it's again, inefficient because I can't settle colonies quicker than GB/Spain/Portugal and they always end up getting the treaty before I do. I don't want to be continually excommunicated by the Pope.

In general, I recommend letting others do more colonising than you if you are going for WC.

It is most efficient to full annex a coloniser and get all their subject colonies for free, and you should be looking for efficiencies in every possible way during a WC. Conquest usually requires coring or diplomatic integration, both of which require Admin/Diplo points respectively. Free colonies when you full annex a coloniser requires neither Admin or Diplo points!

Colonising can still be a good strategy during WC, because it can help you get into Africa and Asia quickly and start fighting wars that are much easier to win than European wars. But don't make it a focus of your strategy, you should aim to get colonies for free in peace deals wherever possible rather than make them all yourself.

5) Speaking of PUs, I have good success at getting my dynasty on major nations but I don't seem to be able to ever PU them. Are PUs a necessary part of WC or not?

PUs perhaps aren't absolutely essential to WC, but they can sure make it a heck of a lot easier.

I'm wondering if your lack of PU situation is because you aren't necessarily strong enough yet to out compete other nations with Royal Marriages? The likelihood of a PU forming in your favour goes up the stronger you get, often there won't even be a succession war once you are big enough. My most recent WC as Russia I got PUs with Great Britain and Austria, both of which formed in the mid-1600s. You might want to look at some tips on PUs specifically, there are some good guides out there.

6) Ideas. This ties in a bit with above. I never take Influence because I don't like vassal feeding too much. But I guess that's a big part of WC? What happens when Vassals take ages and loads of diplo points to annex? I guess it's still better than loads of Admin. points...

In a WC, you eventually want to be coring new land at between 75% OE and 100% OE almost continuously from the Age of Absolutism onwards. Vassal annexing allows you to go beyond your OE limits by using your subjects' OE capacity instead. I recommend you reconsider your approach to vassal feeding and add it to your game play, will make your attempt at WC easier for sure.

I recommend Admin, Influence and Diplo Ideas (not necessarily in that order) somewhere within your first 4 Idea groups for a WC attempt.

7) CB. I've always wanted to go Revolutionary France but in my saves the Revolution always seems to die out very early. Is the Revolutionary CB still okay for WC?

Being Revolutionary can make expansion even faster in the late game, but it isn't essential. The advanced CBs are fine on their own.

8) Big nations. This is probably the biggest debate I have with myself. I've seen countless guides that say eat the small first, but I find as France, particularly given the HRE and not many easy targets, it helps A LOT to take England out early (avoiding them colonising) and the HRE. Even damaging Spain, even if you want to PU them, means that you have a free run at Western Europe and most of the Americas. I'm not sure, but I think when I do try my WC save I'll definitely try and wipe out England as quick as possible.

The guides are correct, eat the small nations first and the bigger ones last. That doesn't mean you can't take out some big nations in the early and mid game (recommend you should almost always be taking out England early as France), but in general waiting before you hit the big nations will make the war easier if you've absorbed a bunch of smaller nations in the mean time.

Good luck in your WC!

 

[Blizzrd33]

You have to think of a WC as a survival-Marathon. You have a set limit of resources that are constantly getting depleted and it is up to you to make them last until the end of the race.

This is spot on.

WC is about maximising your available resources every step of the way.

Your most plentiful resource (once you get rolling) will be gold.

Time will often be your biggest limiting factor. Other than time, your most limited resource will eventually just be Admin points (mid to late WC run). Any event that lets you convert gold to monarch points (of whatever type), I usually do it. More gold lets you hire better advisors which means a better supply of monarch points. Once you start thinking about your resources in conjunction with each other, it will help you make your decisions along the WC journey.