World Commerce

[IsaacCAT]

Preface: @WhyWhimsy suggestion for more interesting trade and @AggaWackTan contribution on that thread made me think about a trade system that could represent better how commerce was done while being fun for the player. I also wanted to use @finmise and @We Who Are About 2 Die ideas to implement ancient trade routes in the game.

Observation: trade is done nation to nation and only with nations we have in diplomatic range. In ancient times international trade was done mainly by merchants and they imported goods from all the known world through established trade routes.

Suggestion: Implement world commerce for international trades through merchants, trade routes and trade attractiveness. National trades are exempted.

How:

First, all provinces' goods will be transported to the nearest trade route that will move the goods throughout all the map.

Spoiler: Trade routes map

An example of these trade routes where all goods from provinces are transported is this map:

For example, all the goods from provinces in Iberia will be connected to the World Trade Network through one of these trade routes:

• Oceanus Atlanticus
• Mare Cantrabrium
• Iberian East Coast
• Mare Ibericum

This way we group the goods in trade routes.

We will use these trade routes to identify the import trades in the provincial trade window. See Next point.

Second, the player will decide which goods will be exported and imported for each province.

Spoiler: Provincial Trade Window

The provincial trade window will allow us to decide which goods are exported and imported.

When selecting an import route, the window for trading will show trade routes instead of countries.

Because trade routes are all connected, the player will have access to all the goods available in the known world. The name on this window will show the closest section of the multiple trade routes used to bring the good to the province.

Third, the trades will be decided by the trade attractiveness.

Spoiler: Trade attractiveness

To decide which trade takes precedent, the game uses trade attractiveness value. When there are not enough goods for all the trades in the World Trade Network, the merchants will decide always for the highest trade attractiveness value.

The player will be informed about the trade attractiveness for every trade route available.

For example, if you are in Greece and you want to import Iron, you may see the following values for each trade route:

• +30 on the Mare Ageum trade route
• +40 on the Mare Ionium trade route
• +20 on the Macedonian trade route

If you choose the Macedonian trade route, you are not using the most attractive trade route for your trade and other players will be able to snatch your trade if they have better trade attractiveness.

Of course, the management of trade routes can be automated by your governors as in 2.0. The player will focus on improve trade attractiveness.

How trade attractiveness is calculated?

Each trade will have good and bad points that trade merchants will use to decide where to sell their goods first. The Region Trade Merchant is a new job that will impact positively on the trades attractiveness of that region provinces depending on charisma. On the other hand, remote trades will have negative impact on the attractiveness score.

Each trade will be rated by the following factors:

• +1.0 * # Noble POP in the destination province
• +0.7 * # Citizen POP in the destination province
• +0.5 * # Freeman POP in the destination province
• +10 * Charisma of the Region Trade Merchant
• -1.0 * Mountain without road tile passed to get to the Capital Province
• -0.9 * Marsh or Jungle without road tile passed to get to the Capital Province
• -0.5 * Desert or Hills without road tile passed to get to the Capital Province

The tiles that are used to calculate the trade are the ones involved in moving the good from the origin province capital territory to the destination province capital territory using each trade routes.

For example, a good from Iahtrippa imported by Getia Province will use the following trade routes:

1. Iathripa to Raunathou Kome Port in Sinus Arabicus (+2 desert tiles)
2. Sinus Arabicus to Mare Aeyptum
3. Mare Aegyptum to Mare Aegaeum
4. Mare Aegaeum to Pontus Euxinus
5. Pontus Euxinus to Ciagisiana

Total negative points –1 for trade attractiveness.

On the contrary, the province of Getia in Getia has 2 freeman POPs in total at the start of the game, for a +0.5 * 2 = +1 for trade attractiveness.

If the Region would have a Trade Merchant with 6 Charisma, then the trade will have +60 points trade attractiveness.

Fourth, how to play with trade routes.

Spoiler: Playing with trade routes

The trade routes are the fastest and shortest routes between two provinces.

Thus, the players can build roads to make their provinces more attractive to trades.

Other possibilities that can be implemented are:

Trade routes affected by	Effect on trade route	Action by the player
Pirates’ activity	-10 points for pirate presence in the trade route	Patrol the sea to decrease Pirates Activity
Wars	-10 points for wars in the trade route	End the war or wait for other players end their wars
Blockades	Through Diplomacy, Players can blockade trade passing through its territories to another player.	Open other alternatives to get the trade attractiveness wanted via other routes. For example, get access to a sea Port.

 

[ImperatorSouhail]

I quite like the suggestion. And I appreciate including charisma in it. But 1 character as merchant per province is too much, 1 per region might suffice. Then name the job as 'trade master of X' (the X stands for name of region) or something. With the character with the most holdings in said region acting as the holder of this job(of course he wouldnt have a job prior). It will make it very competitive to occupy this lucrative office.

 

[IsaacCAT]

I quite like the suggestion. And I appreciate including charisma in it. But 1 character as merchant per province is too much, 1 per region might suffice. Then name the job as 'trade master of X' (the X stands for name of region) or something. With the character with the most holdings in said region acting as the holder of this job(of course he wouldnt have a job prior). It will make it very competitive to occupy this lucrative office.

Yes, regional trade merchant makes sense. I will edit the suggestion with this suggestion.

 

[cristofolmc]

I like it a lot. But it doesnt make sense that trade attractiveness doesnt take into account civilization value and something so basic as access to market and port buildings. AND roads. Trades will be less likely to get to you from a trade route if youre not connected by road to it.

Also distance to the trade route should affect trade attractiveness. Its not the same an iberian tribe next to a trade route than a northern germanic tribe, thousands of kn away from the main trade routes. They will have a much harder time getting those resources, and will be forced to either develop to get their own trade routes or invade southwards...

Also one question. In your suggestion, tradd routes are dynamic or static? Personally i and most people would hate for them to be static (eu4). It would be cool if the trade attractiveness could, when high enough through several provinces, would divert through them changing from the current road. Say there is a war and the regions are devastated and always in civil wars and pirates and what not. Eventually the route would cease to go that way and would go throughsomewhere else right?

I mean imagine a historical trade route at the start of the game, which goes most of the journey through provinces without roads. If youre neighbouring nation and parallel to most of the route you build a road, its logic to think the merchants route will change and they will start going through the road and the cities the road goes through instead, right?

 

[IsaacCAT]

I like it a lot. But it doesnt make sense that trade attractiveness doesnt take into account civilization value and something so basic as access to market and port buildings. AND roads. Trades will be less likely to get to you from a trade route if youre not connected by road to it.

Also distance to the trade route should affect trade attractiveness. Its not the same an iberian tribe next to a trade route than a northern germanic tribe, thousands of kn away from the main trade routes. They will have a much harder time getting those resources, and will be forced to either develop to get their own trade routes or invade southwards...

Also one question. In your suggestion, tradd routes are dynamic or static? Personally i and most people would hate for them to be static (eu4). It would be cool if the trade attractiveness could, when high enough through several provinces, would divert through them changing from the current road. Say there is a war and the regions are devastated and always in civil wars and pirates and what not. Eventually the route would cease to go that way and would go throughsomewhere else right?

I mean imagine a historical trade route at the start of the game, which goes most of the journey through provinces without roads. If youre neighbouring nation and parallel to most of the route you build a road, its logic to think the merchants route will change and they will start going through the road and the cities the road goes through instead, right?

Trade routes are access points. If your nation is a square, you will have east, south, west and north trade routes.

Trade path is routed as the fastest and shortest way between two provinces. Trade routes are dynamic:

• Ports of course play a part by providing access to sea.
• Roads do play in trade attractiveness as they erase the negative points on difficult territories like mountains or deserts.
• Civilization could play a part, but I think it is more important the number of clients and their purchase power (nobles, citizens and freemen).

Wars, pirates and blockades make the trade less atractive for that trade route, in your square nation if the east access is less attractive than the south access, you will route your trades through the south one.

Yes, trade path always uses the fastest path possible. The game already does that when you select an army to move to another point. On trades, the game will do the same but considering also sea routes.

Distance is a tricky one. Longer distances make trades more profitable. I have added difficulty instead of distance for trade attractiveness. Getting through mountains, deserts, marshlands, etc can make profitable trades not so much because the goods are lost.

 

[Samitte]

Trade routes are access points. If your nation is a square, you will have east, south, west and north trade routes.

Trade path is routed as the fastest and shortest way between two provinces. Trade routes are dynamic:

• Ports of course play a part by providing access to sea.
• Roads do play in trade attractiveness as they erase the negative points on difficult territories like mountains or deserts.
• Civilization could play a part, but I think it is more important the number of clients and their purchase power (nobles, citizens and freemen).

Wars, pirates and blockades make the trade less atractive for that trade route, in your square nation if the east access is less attractive than the south access, you will route your trades through the south one.

Yes, trade path always uses the fastest path possible. The game already does that when you select an amry to move to another point. On trades, the game will do the same but considering also sea routes.

Distance is a tricky one. Longer distances make trades more profitable. I have added difficulty instead of distance for trade attractiveness. Getting through mountains, deserts, marshlands, etc can make profitable trades not so much because the goods are lost.

Dynamic trade is the way to go, and that it be done in 1.5.3 already has been proven via mods, though it would be nice to see a tailor made system for it.

EDIT: Oh and perhaps holy sites should also weigh into the system - they often became trade hubs with all the traffic.

I'd personally prefer a system more along the lines of what Vicky II does, with pops having certain needs (based on social status and culture) and trade happening outside of the player's direct contol (I really don't find the current system very fitting) - though investing in infrastructure and conquering key areas would be beneficial. This could then also lead to a more sophisticated system of economic management... But a person can dream right?

 

[IsaacCAT]

Internal trade routes are not considered.

When your nation expands it will have far away acces points or trade routes.

For example, when Rome expands to all the Italian peninsula, the trade routes can be the Mediterranean and the Alps routes.

A good exported from a Germanic tribe will calculate its trade route to the Mediterranean access or the Alps access trade route attractiveness. The value will be different as the shortest path to a Port in the Mediterranean will be through sea, and the shortest to the Alps will be through land.

If Pirates are active on the seas, this trade route may be les attractive and other nations will get the trade

If an enemy nation that has an active trade blockade, blocks our Alps access trade because all the land sourronding Rome in the Alps is theirs, the only route possible is the Mediterranean sea.

Trade attractiveness does not cancel the trade right away it changes. Only when another nation asks for the same good with better trade attractiveness, then the trade is lost.

 

[StrifeXIII]

I just want to say I really like these ideas!
I haven’t put much thought into how trade should change but definitely having defined trade routes in which we interact with for exporting and importing is way better than direct nation to nation.
Perhaps with the defined trade routes in the map we can blockade trade goods for flowing to a particular nation within the trade route we are at war with.
Also I wonder if somehow the goods you export into a trade route can increase in trade income gained the further out it goes into foreign lands via the trade routes. I’m thinking like trading silk from eastern lands and the silk goods make their way to Italy, Africa and Gaul gives it more trading income value back to the original source?

 

[cristofolmc]

How does internal trade fit into your suggestion then? Same thing but without restrictions and being able to move trade goods along the trade route inside your borders? Would still be automated and cities would compete for those good with trade attractiveness? What about the supply of strategic trade goods such as food? Would it be manually done by the player?

 

[IsaacCAT]

How does internal trade fit into your suggestion then? Same thing but without restrictions and being able to move trade goods along the trade route inside your borders? Would still be automated and cities would compete for those good with trade attractiveness? What about the supply of strategic trade goods such as food? Would it be manually done by the player?

I have not thought about internal trade because the fun part is to compete with other players for trades.

Whatever you move inside your nation should be decided by the player without restrictions. The same if it is automated. However, the IA could use the trade attractiveness to select competing internal trades preference.

 

[AggaWackTan]

I especially like reusing the accepted/ denied requests tab but I would like to recycle the 'trade route' feature from the current game but reimagined. Do trade goods only flow in one direction along these trade routes in your suggestion or do they travel both ways? I would like a rework to keep strategic war decisions in consideration as well. Established trade routes shouldn't be an easy thing to achieve, a route should be a sign of a competent fleet supporting the route to detract pirates.

A trade route should be able to keep a besieged city stocked on food, providing a fort defense bonus. For example if the Antigonids attacked Rhodes, but neglected the naval race with the Ptolemies, the Ptolemies could connect Alexandria to Rhodes, secure the route with a stronger fleet and basically starve out the besieging army if they neglected their naval support.

(Sorry for the bad Res)

These routes having animated ships and being defensible with fleets and profitable but vulnerable to pirates/ enemy fleets/ bad weather. Also having strategic functions.

It's just trying to balance a dynamic trade system combined with an historically accurate trade route system like the silk road/ amber road is difficult.