• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
The closest thing to matrilineal marriage I can think of is not even real; it's in the fantasy setting of Westeros where the children of Robert Baratheon and Cersei Lannister take the lion and the stag both on their sigil, and take after Lannister customs far more than Baratheon. But still the children are called 'Baratheon'. So it wasn't truly matrilineal.
 
Not that I want to overburden you before you're even finished (and may I say, I love you for making this :) ), but how generic are the events and is there any chance this could be adapted for the Game of Thrones mod? I might try myself when it's released.
 
Not that I want to overburden you before you're even finished (and may I say, I love you for making this :) ), but how generic are the events and is there any chance this could be adapted for the Game of Thrones mod? I might try myself when it's released.

I asked on AGOT forums and Fash said he didn't like the idea of usurping wives titles... (even though it happens in Westeros too)
But it should be adaptable. I'm going to make a compatch if it doesn't anyway.
 
The way I'm writing the mod, it should be compatible with anything, even GOT.

It started off pretty simplistic, but has evolved into some pretty long event chains.

That's not to say there aren't other things I would've liked, that would've involved tweaking other core files, but I resisted, to preserve compatibility.

Anyways. I call it usurping, but I don't really see it as usurping. It's just how it was RL. The game makes a vastly bigger deal out of it, and centralizes power in one character. And it even game overs you for it. I'm just trying to ensure that those who would have been in charge, actually are in charge, but had to write a bunch've stuff so no one would ever feel unfairly treated by it.

Example: No matter how pathetic the wife is, as long as there is even a remotely capable member of her dynasty still around, he can try to intervene. Unlanded interventions are pretty much a crapshoot, that a decently competent husband will overcome. But any landed dynasty member can actually travel to the wife's court, and leave behind a retinue of loyal family retainers to support her.

Then the husband has to either accept that, or find a way to overcome the retainers. He can try to kill them, subvert them or win them over (they realize the husband really should be in charge).

It takes a skilled husband to overcome a landed dynast's intervention. If they fail, they get a penalty for five years that prevents them trying again.

And that's just one chain. There are other chains for wives handling it personally, if they're cruel/paranoid/impalers, for lovers, for regents and council members.

Each time I make it more detailed, I add an extra day or so of testing and bug fixing. But it's been fun, and I want it desperately for my own games, so there's no chance of me not finishing this to my satisfaction.
 
Last edited:
What would happen if a landed woman marries, her husband takes her titles, and then she dies childless. Would her husband lose her titles, as happened in the Kingdom of Jerusalem?

For now, I had to go with the solution that would apply to the majority of historical instances. But I do intend to make it much harder for a man who inherits from his wife, WITHOUT having had a child by her, to hold onto her throne. I know exactly how to do it, it would just take another couple days to implement correctly.

As of now, the husband retains the throne, but anyone that would've ordinarily inherited or received a claim from the wife, as if she'd died while still in charge, will still get it. The AI is pretty good about putting together claim factions.

Another thing I want to do, is make an 'Edward II' event chain. I even found some hilarious gfx for it...

Another one is what I call the 'Anna Comnena' event chain. Basically, Anna and her mother hated Alexios' primary heir, John Comnenus (their son and brother...which makes one wonder what John ever did to so get on their bad side). They wanted Anna (who was the primary heir before John was born) and her husband to assume power.

Alexios refused on his death bed, to crown a man who was not his own heir.

Anna and her husband did try to stage a coup against John after Alexios death, but it fell apart.
 
Last edited:
Sounds great. I asked if there was a way to discourage matrilineal marriages yesterday, and someone responded that an event could fire that would override the matrilineal marriage and would label the children as belonging to the father's dynasty. I don't know anything about modding, but is that a reasonable way to fix it?
 
Sounds great. I asked if there was a way to discourage matrilineal marriages yesterday, and someone responded that an event could fire that would override the matrilineal marriage and would label the children as belonging to the father's dynasty. I don't know anything about modding, but is that a reasonable way to fix it?

An event that triggers off birth, similar to say, how some people have modded childbirth death, but which changes their dynasty to their father's, would probably do the trick. But there is still a great deal of AI crap and poor decision-making that is hardcoded into matri marriage, with some noblewomen even marrying worthless lowborn men simply to preserve their entirely OOC game victory score. IRL of course, nobody ever married a commoner to keep their dynasty from being diluted...quite the opposite.

CK2's marriage AI is so awful, that it can't even arrange betrothals for the purposes of alliance, against a threatening power. As far as I know, the sole reason for the AI not using betrothals, is so the player is never blocked from marrying who they want. That's something else I'm trying to figure out how to fix, since a lot of AI behavior can be simulated with hidden decisions that are invisible to the player. You just have to find inventive ways to point them at certain things, that hardcoded values can do more easily...like the respective available manpower of two different realms. The only way I've found to simulate that, is to use realm_size instead, but that's...unfortunate on several levels, since some states, (especially in my mod) can be much smaller, but have vastly more potent armies.

In fact, one of the few ways to tweak marriage more logically, is to go into defines, and jack up the importance of prestige.

But then you get muslims not taking multiple wives...which is lolworthy (But will be patched), and so I had to write an event to make sure muslims took multiple wives in the meanwhile.

A good window, actually, into how screwed up AI marriage is in the base game, is that Christians have the exact same AI-marriage-prestige formula as muslims, who receive no prestige benefits or penalties at all! Unbelievable!

I'll probably issue a walkthrough, that I hope, will help other people fix marriage in their games, when I release this mod officially. A few easy steps and key things pointed out, which when tweaked, should still be compatible with every other mod in existence.
 
Last edited:
Oh yeah, that's true about noblewomen marrying men without dynasties. Is there at least a way trigger the husband into a randomly generated dynasty when entering in a matri-marriage? Maybe similar to how bastards are given random dynasties?

And yes, AI marriage makes no sense. Whenever I see the Castilian royalty marrying into the families of Irish counts, I have to stop and wonder how historically plausible that marriage would be.
 
Oh yeah, that's true about noblewomen marrying men without dynasties. Is there at least a way trigger the husband into a randomly generated dynasty when entering in a matri-marriage? Maybe similar to how bastards are given random dynasties?

And yes, AI marriage makes no sense. Whenever I see the Castilian royalty marrying into the families of Irish counts, I have to stop and wonder how historically plausible that marriage would be.

The Irish are a plague, yes. :D

And I don't think there is. But there is a way to let them not marry lowborns at all, which is jacking up the prestige importance of marriage AI decisions, which is my preferred solution. (It's just atm, it requires a separate event/decision to make sure Muslims marry at all...but the Muslim/Christian marriage AI should be getting decoupled soon. So I consider this issue largely fixed, but waiting till after Sons).
 
I continued working on everything tonight, squashing bugs and such. Here's a pic of the event in progress...Pay no attention to any of the characters involved (by the standards of the event, it wouldn't even be possible in the first place, but the situation is modded into plausibility, so as to make testing easier). I still haven't decided, for example, whether to even let spouses usurp wives who belong to the same realm as them and are a lower tier.

View attachment 94531

Also on the agenda, is to try and figure out how well title_flags work, and if they can be used to immediately revert specific titles back to the wife, in the event of the husband's death or anything requiring a regency. Since I got to thinking about Princess Constance, Reynald de Chatilon and such, with the Principality of Antioch. (She took over again when he was captured in battle, but I wouldn't want her to take over his estates back in France).

In the vast majority of cases, not all husbands will have access to all options (and some will have no option but to lie down), and the chance of success ranges from as little as 5% to 99%, depending on the option chosen and the skills/traits involved.

As you can see, it didn't go so well...

View attachment 94532

Also, ideally, I'd like to do a completely unique event chain for e_byzantium.
 
Last edited: