• Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Paradox Space Exploration Sale has arrived! Up to 75% off

    How's the space on your hard drive? Paradox wants to challenge your galaxy brain with a great selection of space exploration games - and they're all on sale for some very down-to-earth prices! The sale runs from May 4th until May 10th at 17:00 CEST / 08:00 PDT.


    May 4th - May 10th
  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Damocles

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2001
6.905
217
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
[MOD] Jure uxuris, AI divorce, AI betrothal, released.

Original Post:
I am working on a mod, which is designed to bring a little more realism to medieval dynasty politics. I'd like to gauge potential interest for it, get opinions, and see if I'm missing anything important or game-breaking. I call it 'MB-GOTW'. The M stands for 'Move'. Try and guess what the rest stands for!

Basic Concept:
If a woman has no eligible male relatives of her own dynasty, and she somehow comes into possession of a title...Her husband can usurp it from her, so as to take over as the 'primary' ruler, by whose stats the health of the realm is determined.

Something else I'm keen on figuring out, is that when there is no eligible heir, and a man dies, to have his Queen take over. This isn't possible by messing with succession laws. It has to be an event or a decision, that can somehow reliably fire just before a ruler's death, if his spouse is adept enough. Infirm or incapable rulers, are easy. But those that die through other means, without becoming infirm or incapable first, (without heirs of their dynasty remaining) are harder to figure out.

In that case, a Byzantine Emperor might die, his Empress would inherit the throne, and then she might marry someone, who subsequently usurps the Empire. Of course, in game, AI Romanos Diogenes would never marry 39 year old Eudoxia for being too old to have kids, no matter that the Empire was a dowry. So some kind of decision will be needed for that. Sadly, out of everything CK2 lets us mod, AI weight on marriage decisions remains almost entirely hardcoded, outside prestige.

This was how it worked throughout history, more or less, absent a few cases, like Queen Thamar or the wily Matilda, where they retained power. In that case, I think, spouses who are Grey Eminences, Ambitious, Brave, or have much higher stats than their husbands, will be able to resist.

I've been thinking about it a little while, and it actually shouldn't be too hard at all, or very complicated. It's more a matter of desire and getting the triggers right. In fact, I'm even wondering if someone else has already done something like this. If so...let me know!
RELEASE v1.031

It is 2.0.1 compatible.

View attachment MBGOTW v1.031.rar - Vanilla compatible with SOA.

View attachment MB-PB.rar - Compatibility patch for the latest Project Balance. This is just an 00_on_actions.txt file that should be dropped into the above base mod. If you don't do this, the mod won't work correctly (people won't get what they're supposed to, after deaths and divorces).

This was tested exhaustively with the last patch and it seemed to be working perfectly. I did my best to test it on patch 2.0 and SOA since getting it within the last 24 hours. I released it tonight because people have been so patient. Please let me know if anything is screwed up.

Features:


Briefly,

-You can exercise the right of jure uxoris on your wife. You first must be deemed to be the 'dominant' partner in the relationship, which is determined by a personality matrix (brave vs craven, gregarious vs shy, ambitious vs not ambitious, diligent vs slothful, proud vs humble), and some other factors. Both being ambitious will cancel out, grey_eminence wives cannot be usurped. Some wives, with high enough martial and intrigue cannot be easily usurped.
-Having agnatic succession makes this MUCH easier (the succession that gives penalties with female dynastic members). Succession laws that favor females make it impossible.
-You will have to contend with her family, dynasty, devoted councillors (80 opinion+) or lover to do so, and depending on the circumstances, may either have multiple avenues to success, or none. She may give in right off the bat if there is no one that gives a damn about her, or sees a very small chance for success.
-A wife's lover may try to kill you. And if he kills you, he may try to marry her against her will...Both dynasties will hate him. This can happen to you as well, if an AI husband tries to usurp you, and you rely on your ambitious/evil/crazy lover to handle it.
-Your wife may very well take her lands back, if you are indisposed somehow (such as captured in battle) and she dislikes you. Or she may not. If you have a son by her, she's less apt to for example. Or is suffering any kind of condition. Or is simply content, etc.
-If you divorce your wife, or grant her lands to others that aren't her son, she will take them back automatically and you won't be able to exercise jure uxoris again, until the next generation. Cheater.
-If you die without having a living son by her, she will take her lands back.
-If she dies without having had a son by you, her heir will take the lands back.
-Put in, then took out an event chain that would let either crazy wives, or PC wives try to take matters into their own hand. May put it back in, in an altered form, later on. I thought it trivialized the fact that in order to be successful, female rulers needed strong social networks or kinship groups, historically.
- Wives of lower tier than their husband will be vassalized. A good reason to marry, say, a powerful duchess already in your own realm, besides the fact that your son will inherit, is to keep her from marrying another...
- PC wives will always be left with a county, unless their husband has no land, and you have only one province. I thought it setback enough that he would take the highest tier.
-Both husband and wife must be either in or out of Byzantium, or both in, or both outside of the HRE. Byzantium will shortly be getting its own unique treatment. The CK2 engine simply doesn't let us model the HRE at the moment, but both in or both out, makes it the least bit stupid (for example, in game, there's no concept of 'homage', such as Edward, doing homage to Philip for Normandy etc, and the concept is even more convoluted inside the HRE.)
- A husband must be either the same culture_group of his wife's capital, OR his wife's dynasty. If he shares the same realm as his wife's culture (say, English and Occitan) or neighbors his wife's culture, it will work. And if he is either ambitious or gregarious. Otherwise, he simply won't have the kind of rapport, or local support that is necessary to be truly successful (but his son by her will be accepted).

*AI BETROTHAL*

- AI will arrange betrothals, if possible, and if capable enough, with nubile young ladies with...large, tracts of land.
-They will prefer to betroth themselves, but depending, may betroth a son or brother, etc, if it means keeping that land. May need a little more work - didn't have as much time to really push the limits on this and then test it, given the patch just hit.
- This was necessary for game balance, so that AI won't let players snatch up heiresses from them, willy nilly.
- Currently, the AI only takes advantage of young vassal heiresses.

*AI DIVORCE*

- AI wives will divorce husbands that they either dislike immensely, or who tried to exercise jure uxoris on them and failed humiliatingly.
- Wives with a living son by their husbands will not be able to divorce (sorry ladies), and they must also be landed. In this age, it was only females with substantial power bases, that were able to successfully seek divorces (such as Eleanor of Aquitaine).
- This is the likelihood of divorce from most to least: humiliated husband failed to usurp wife, husband is lower tier and wife has a lover, husband is lower tier, husband is higher tier and wife has a lover, husband is higher tier.
- Wives will not seek divorces from husbands if they have even a +1 opinion of them. Wives without lovers will need to be at -100 opinion to divorce a higher tier husband. All involved take a piety and prestige hit.
- This was necessary for game balance, to encourage you to not be a complete bastard to your wife.

COMING SOON:

- Edward II-esque event chain
- Romanos Diogenes/Empress Zoe-esque event chain, where the widow of a Byzantine Emperor may end up handing the throne over to either a dashing military commander, or the epileptic brother of a eunuch councilor.
- Some stuff with monks and nuns

COMING EVENTUALLY:

- A Lion in Winter-esque event chain, dealing with dynastic squabbles. Sons vs fathers, sons vs mothers, mothers vs daughters, brothers vs brothers, brothers vs sisters, etc.
- Muslim dynastic civil wars
- Evil Regent event chain.

FAQ:


Q) Why is it called MBGOTW?
A) I was being silly. Someday I'll change it.

Q) Is this going to break anything?
A) It...shouldn't. It's potentially compatible with any mod in existence once the on_action is updated (which is simple). Although, there are a few traits that might pop up (at the end of one event chain, namely, the potential of getting a scarred, veteran, skilled fighter in your service) that rely on mods with those traits, such as PB-VIET. But if you don't have those traits, it'll just be a random soldier as normal. And I referenced VIET's congenital traits in a few places, cause I like them so much, but not in a major mod-busting way. But if you don't have VIET's congenital traits, I highly recommend getting them.

Q) Isn't this like, totally unbalanced?
A) No.

Q) Seriously. Won't the game be a cakewalk, if I'm like, marrying and usurping bitches left and right!?
B) No. I went to a considerable amount of trouble to close potential loopholes or abuses. There is an extreme variety of factors that go into whether exercising jure uxoris is even possible, let alone likely. I'd say that it is more difficult to plan for and take advantage of, than it is to wage a war of conquest...especially since the AI will act to secure their own interests (via betrothals and divorces, when important landed women are involved). If it becomes available as an option, and you successfully overcome the challenges to make it a fact, then I would consider it a truly special bit of providence, and vaguely equivalent to say, getting the Personal Union event in EUIII (the one that had a chance to merge realms), if much more detailed. Not to mention, your possession of any lands is merely temporary, unless you have a son by her. Her other heirs (even her original liege) will be waiting in the wings to take it back otherwise. She might also turn the tables on you. If everything works out perfect, and you get a heir on a nubile, available duchess, and you rule her lands with an iron fist until you both die of old age and your son takes over, that should be considered a highlight of your game.

Q) TL-DNR.
A) Fine! Simply put, I think this mechanic is more balanced and realistic, than most other mechanics currently in the game.

Q) That's a pretty high opinion of yourself. I bet it's bugged as shit.
A) I've got to get to the next question.

Q) Won't this possibly lead to situations that are perhaps, not unbalanced, but highly implausible?
A) Only insofar as the setup, of dynasties, laws or character traits is implausible to begin with. I vaguely recall vanilla Matilda having horribly wrong traits, and a great many historical personages are randomly generated. Some places, such as in Ireland or Scotland, have 1 or 2 random dudes that stand in for what was hundreds of potential male tanists in their tribe. Unsurprisingly, quite often, Ireland ends up full of female heiresses (perhaps a case in itself for a tanistry mod). Point being, the more historical the setup, the more historical the outcome will be with this mod. If someone can show me conclusively otherwise, and a poor trait/law/dynasty setup isn't to blame for it, I will immediately adjust it.

Q) Anything else I should know?
A) Yes. I tested the first version of this mod on my own much bigger project that I'm working on, which has the defines and other decisions/events modded for the AI to place vastly more importance on prestige when marrying, and to wait a few years to land a good marriage. In vanilla CK, men are compelled by sanity-cracking obsession to enjoy monogamous marital bliss every second of their lives, and should their wife drop dead, they lurch about in an anguished, lustful daze, keening with unholy need, until they find the first portly, gaptoothed wench of a milk maid to make their duchess, provided she immediately consents to marry them. In the Ck2 universe, it is a hideous aberration, for a man to spend even a single moment of his life, from 16 to 66, without knowing the exquisite bliss of marriage. No doubt it is punishable by death for a man to not marry before he is thirty, within vanilla CK2. If the real world followed CK2 logic, the Karlings would still be around, and somewhere there'd be the great-great-great-great-x10 grandson of Richard the Lionheart.

So yes, CK2 is stupid in that regard (and highly implausible). Someday, I'll release a mod for it, when I have enough ready to justify taking over the defines (and rendering it incompatible with virtually every other mod in existence). But anyone would be well served by going into their defines, and experimenting with the value the AI places on prestige. It's half the battle

Q) Can I use or modify any part of this for my own mod?
A) By all means. Just give me a shout out in the credits.

TIPS AND TRICKS

- Go into defines.lua, look for MARRIAGE_AI_PRESTIGE_VALUE and set it from 1.0 to 2.0. The higher it is, the more the AI will value prestige (such as rank and tier differences) when making marriages. Currently, the AI does not value prestige at all, leading to marrying lowborns.

- Look for MARRIAGE_TIER_DIFF_PRESTIGE_MULT and set it somewhere between 100-200.

- 1.5 and 100 seems to work well enough, until next release (v1.5), when matrilineally married lowborns will be a thing of the past.

- Let marriages come to you. Go with what's natural in the game. Things will feel much more right. Aggressively using assassination to set up the perfect storm of inheritances and jure uxoris can be fun when it works, but the mod is designed to not have any situation be a slam dunk, so it could also elicit frustration and save scumming, which is less fun in the end (for me anyways).

- AI Betrothals are a bit borked. It will be fixed next release (which will be v1.5).
 
Last edited:
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Azarias59

Field Marshal
31 Badges
Mar 8, 2013
2.771
1.501
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
I FULLY support this! However, I think she should be given a titular county title so that she is still playable, and be able to manage her children (in the case of a matri-marriage.)

You may need to find a workaround for the short/long reign opinion modifiers, as well as the years reigned (when it comes to adjusting succession laws.)

You can probably find a minor title that makes the wife the heiress. The problem lies, however, in that if her husband is already landed. The wife would need to be the heiress to her own titles, but the son would need to be the heir to everything else. But THEN, if her husband acquired titles during the marriage, that would need to be sorted out. Perhaps the mom would inherit her old titles plus any new kingdoms/empires, so that she is still her son's liege?

And then there is another matter to consider. If she is vassalized to another king, that would in effect steal her titles from his realm. And if there are no children from the marriage, with her inheriting it back, she would need to re-swear fealty to the same king.

EDIT: This is my 333rd post :)
 
Last edited:

Damocles

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2001
6.905
217
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
It would be nice if she was playable, but I think owing to the limitations of CK2s, we're just going to have to go with the rule of strong. In history, there were countless women, or female heirs who inherited powerful realms - and pretty much all we know of them is some variation of the following: 'After a brief period of political wrangling amongst her foremost advisors, Queen So-And-So married Lord John. All Hail King John!' We pretty much never hear of Queen So-And-So again, poor lass.

When say, the daughter of a duke inherited his duchy, it was seen that to marry her, was basically to receive the duchy.

Sometimes it worked out differently. The Duke of Bavaria married Matilda of Tuscany, then furiously separated from her (or maybe called the marriage off, I can't quite remember) when he found out she'd arranged something like the medieval equivalent of the pre-nup for her lands to go to the Pope instead of him.

So players of female heirs, and AI with traits like genius, ambitious, etc, will be immune to being usurped.

I'm not too worried about short/long reign opinion modifiers. It would probably happen soon after marriage, and if things get reset...well. That could be seen as the resentment of those nobles she didn't marry.

Right now, it's possible to arrange for the Byzantine Empress to inherit, using a minor title, but born_in_the_purple (and it's minor title variation) appears hardcoded to e_byzantium.

It seems as of now, the only way for a female consort in a non-Byzantine kingdom to take over after death, is for an event to fire that causes her to usurp him (and again, short reign penalty is appropriate here), while he is either Infirm or Incapable, and has no heirs.

If there are heirs, the regent system can represent it. And even though the regent system sucks, that'd be work of a different mod.
 

Dhop84

Major
2 Badges
Dec 28, 2012
788
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 500k Club
This sounds awesome .The Byzantine part especially as many would be emperors married the widowed empress to become Co emperor .
 

Damocles

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2001
6.905
217
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
This sounds awesome .The Byzantine part especially as many would be emperors married the widowed empress to become Co emperor .

Yes. Ideally, the game would already take that into account, with some kind of Byzantine succession law. It wouldn't even be hard for them to do it, at the hard code level. Hmm...do I want to be Emperor of the Roman Empire, and the most powerful Christian potentate in all the world, or do I not want to marry a wretched, 37 year old geezer lady.

In CK2, men keep it real. They marry the taut 16 year old lowborn girl, and flee from the unimaginably ancient 37 year old Empress. That's Swedish logic!

Historically, of course, Romanos leaped at the chance to marry Eudokia, and even got two kids on her in the short time he had before Manzikert. That's proper Greek logic.

So something more event/decision driven, will have to suffice, where Byzantium is concerned.

Creating a usurp spouse event/decision, and applying the modifiers of how likely or possible it is, is actually quite doable. The hard part, is making the AI somehow figure out...'I want to divorce this chick I'm married to right now, and then marry the Empress, BECAUSE she's the Empress, and I want to be the next Emperor'. That's a bit rougher. My thoughts at the moment are keying it off the leader of the most powerful claimant faction.

The goal being of course, to get them married to the empress, so they can then usurp her. Or really, I like to think of it more as 'switching' with her, so as to be in the driver's seat. And they'll have to divorce their current wife, because in CK2's universe, men spend their entire lives, from 16 to their death bed, married to a never ending stream of women, with no break inbetween. If there isn't a likely woman of their station available, they WILL go out into the nearest alley or pasture, and drag the unfortunate shepherdess back to their estate, lest even a single day pass without knowing the ecstasy of matrimony for its own sake.

Of course, CK2's men's predilections to marry anything with a pulse, get into other mod territory (like making a 'widowed' trait, or raising the emphasis the AI places on prestige from the infinitesimal to the hefty, in defines. Or slowing things down by say, not allowing marriage while ill, stressed, depressed, celibate, excommunicated, suffering from any range of diseases). In my own game, I made it so homosexuals couldn't marry either. My reasoning being, that countless sovereigns might've been homosexual, but kept it on the down low. Kinsey scale and all that. If you're so homosexual, as to actually get a trait for it, suggesting that posterity will remember you chiefly for how awesomely homosexual you were as a defining aspect of your character, marriage probably wasn't a priority, and you probably died a bachelor.
 
Last edited:

Damocles

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2001
6.905
217
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
I'm also thinking of packaging with this mod, something else I've already gotten working, which allows Christian counts and barons to 'marry into the local nobility'. They get a wife, of their capital's flavor, (So a Norman in Apulia, would marry a Southern Italian noble lady), and they get a minor revolt decrease to their capital province. Their wife is a bona fide dynastic noble, it doesn't negatively affect their prestige, and they get a small retinue of his wife's relatives, and a soldier cousin of her's at court. The way I have it done now, AI dukes and above won't go for it so much, but counts and barons will if there's no one better. It enormously helps the first years of the game.

The bit of prestige, revolt lowering, soldier cousin of their wife, and basically a single retinue's worth of non-reinforcing free knights, make up for the fact that your wife is going to have random stats, and bring no other alliance or potential inheritance with her.

It helps AI nobles and barons a ton in the early game. And sometimes, while I'm playing, I find it useful too, if my capital is in a wrong culture/wrong religion province, and I don't want to go on a bride hunt. The AI /will/ seek better matches though before settling (if their prestige emphasis is high enough in defines, base game it's so low as to be a non issue). But at least they're marrying local nobles and not the dung-gatherer's daughter, losing a ton of prestige in the process.

I only hesitate because it may not be as perfectly balanced as I have it for my own game, which is based on a more comprehensive mod I'm working on, which has dynamic revolt risks, affected by virtually every trait, with every culture having a unique disposition to rebellion (along with unique everything else) among other things based on SMWH's map. Without that, taking a risk on a shitty wife but guaranteed lower revolt risk loses a lot of the allure...even though that's the primary reason nobles married for IRL.

Sadly, that probably should wait till SMWH's first update post Sons of Abraham, or else, what, people'll enjoy it for two weeks? And if I supply it with only the defines file that makes the AI even bother using it, that could just be a huge pain in the ass to people using other mods. But at least one can see, how much thought I've been giving to CK's bizarro dynastic politics. Maybe I can scale it down, to be stand-aloneish as well.
 
Last edited:

Dhop84

Major
2 Badges
Dec 28, 2012
788
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 500k Club
Sounds better and better im a fan already . I wonder if with the Byzantine side of things it was said that to be emperor you had to have the will of the army the senate and the people so an event or decision could fire for who has specific court titles and abilities in certain areas ie justin I held comes excubitorum, commander of the palace guard So if you held that title and had a master warrior trait or skilled warrior or domestikos of the Army that would give you the will of the army so you gain a claim but to rubber stamp it you have to marry the Empress or like emperor Nikephoros who was appointed finance minister (logothetēs tou genikou) and Patrician (patrikios) so had high position in empire and a fair bit of cash so with the help of other Patricians usurped the throne so if he you have the specific title aswell as specific amount of cash and or certain traits and no emperor you get a chance to grab the girl so to speak and then with that brings the throne or if your from the ruling classes ie a family of good wealth and titles and the best candidate for the job as "regent" to the dead emperors son you marry the empress and be proclaimed as basileopator ("father of the emperor").and depending on what you wana do either be nice and continue to tutor the boy with the hope of you and the empress having a child who will then gain a claim on the throne in there own rite or be a jerk and shaft the wife and the boy have them blinded and packed off to a monastery and have yourself proclaimed emperor with obvious consequences .
 
Last edited:

Damocles

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2001
6.905
217
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
Update:

I'm going to give it about 2-3 days, for some judicious testing, and seeing if anyone comes up with something I forgot, and then I'm going to release a basic version of it, that I have stripped down to be as stand-alone as possible, and thus potentially slot into any other mod, without needing anything conflicty, like defines.

I got it working tonight pretty good though. Minor titles with the born in the purple code, while I could make one that gave it to the Co-Empress, sadly, have no effect on the succession unless it's one of your children you give the title to. But that's all right.

I'm handling the initial version as basically an elaborate decision, and aimed mainly at the ai. I'd like to eventually turn it into more of a plot-type shennanigan, and do it around the time I do a bunch've similar work to make regents a lot more nasty and mean. The player will be able to usurp, under the same elaborate conditions as the AI, but I'd ideally like to eventually have the AI use the decision, and the players use a more difficult plot mechanic. That said, I think the way I have it set up is perfectly fair and historical. Having it be a plot would mostly be to take into account the idea of other courtiers, who like your wife way more than you, trying to keep you from seizing the reins.

The way I have it right now:

Usurp Spouse
Conditions:
* You're a man. (I'm assuming you're an adult, if you've got a spouse to begin wtih).
* You belong to religion_group christian.
* You're not a prisoner.
* You have 100 Prestige.
* Your spouse's primary title is higher than baroness. Everything at the baron level is kind've a weird, inchoate soup in CK2. Eventually, I intend to try and see if I can make the baronage a more disruptive and destabilizing force, but that'll be later.

* You have to not be an idiot or incapacitated. Inbreds, imbeciles, slows, naive appeasers, indulgent wastrels, amateurish plotters and detached priests aren't going to receive the popular support to supplant the last female scion of the old dynasty.

* You can't have serious health issues, and you can't be distracted. So wounded, maimed, blinded, castrated, ill, pneumonic, stressed, depressed, etc, are all out. They've got other problems. No celibates. You won't be able to propagate a new dynasty (my own mod doesn't even allow celibates to marry. Although, they can become celibate while married).

* You can't be humble with a proud wife.
* You can't be craven with a brave wife.
* You can't be slothful with a diligent wife.
* You can't be shy with a gregarious wife.

Psychology suggests that in those circumstances, whatever your other virtues, the wife will be the emotionally dominant partner in the relationship and isn't going to stand for you telling her councilors to start reporting to you for now on. Not that you would dare in the first place.

* YOUR WIFE: She can't be ambitious, quick, a genius or a grey_eminence. Failing that, If she has at least two of the following three traits in any combination with each other (Diligent, Proud, Brave) AND at least 8 in both Martial and Intrigue, she'll be considered a Caterina Sforza type, and not be pushed out. Players will eventually have a plot where they can try anyways, but if the wife meets these requirements, she'll have the potential to kick your ass in a way one that doesn't, will not. You better hope she isn't cruel or an impaler...or the court could get a new eunuch, instead of a royal jester.

Content wives will always bow out gracefully. As well as those with any two of the following three traits in any combination, (Shy, Craven, Humble). Provided you're not equally pathetic, a wife being an imbecile, infirm or incapable will cancel out her above defenses.

If all these requirements are met, your spouse will abdicate to you all her powers and responsibilities - It's a man's world, and you're a man's man. You'll decide that she should spend more time knitting with her ladies-in-waiting, and less time at council meetings.

Revenge of the Spouse

Right now, I have it to where if you are infirm, incapable, blinded, maimed or castrated, or are otherwise unable to produce a heir, and have either no heir, or your primary_heir is like this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_VII - then an ambitious spouse, younger than 40, will take over the reins of government. She'll then either marry one of the leading notables in the realm - or failing that, a dashing and brilliant young scion of the lesser nobility...who'll proceed to do everything for her that you couldn't.

The only consolation is that if you did have a heir (and hopefully he was landed), he'll get a claim and the resentment to go with it.

The first version of this will also be a decision, and aimed mainly at the AI. Although, if your dynasty has gotten to the point where you're being shoved aside as an invalid, heirless cripple and cuckolded on your death bed, then you may have bigger problems already.

The version I want to aim more at players, also has to do with some regent stuff I'm working on, and will be more plot power oriented as well, with an event chain, if you have a dynasty member losing out. If you are completely heirless...that's just the end of the line. I considered tying it with an adopt-type mechanic, and maybe I still will. But that gets sort've cheesy. Your main responsibility, in CK2, is to propagate your dynasty, and if you fail that badly, a game over seems fair. I imagine most players will be hard pressed to get to that point before quitting anyways.

But this will allow the wider world of AI to play out in historical permutations, that the engine currently doesn't allow.

The two events can work together quite wonderfully, in that the old emperor goes infirm and doddering. His wife takes power from him. He subsequently dies. She marries a dashing up and comer, and then he assumes the real power of the throne.
 
Last edited:

Damocles

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2001
6.905
217
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
Sounds better and better im a fan already . I wonder if with the Byzantine side of things it was said that to be emperor you had to have the will of the army the senate and the people so an event or decision could fire for who has specific court titles and abilities in certain areas ie justin I held comes excubitorum, commander of the palace guard So if you held that title and had a master warrior trait or skilled warrior or domestikos of the Army that would give you the will of the army so you gain a claim but to rubber stamp it you have to marry the Empress or like emperor Nikephoros who was appointed finance minister (logothetēs tou genikou) and Patrician (patrikios) so had high position in empire and a fair bit of cash so with the help of other Patricians usurped the throne so if he you have the specific title aswell as specific amount of cash and or certain traits and no emperor you get a chance to grab the girl so to speak and then with that brings the throne or if your from the ruling classes ie a family of good wealth and titles and the best candidate for the job as "regent" to the dead emperors son you marry the empress and be proclaimed as basileopator ("father of the emperor").and depending on what you wana do either be nice and continue to tutor the boy with the hope of you and the empress having a child who will then gain a claim on the throne in there own rite or be a jerk and shaft the wife and the boy have them blinded and packed off to a monastery and have yourself proclaimed emperor with obvious consequences .

That's about what I hope to accomplish with the player-aimed part of it. The plot, and plot power, is sort've the closest thing we have to the 'will of the people and the senate'. And it'll be aimed more at being the one taking over, and not so much at the poor, doddering, soon-to-be post-mortem cuckolded Emperor, ala Konstantine X. I'll focus the events at players who are either in the position of say, Michael or Romanos, (the idiot, passed-over son, and the dashing up-and-comer, as it were, respectively). I've considered trying to represent the Senate, both of Rome and Constantinople, as a titular merchant republic, with its patrician families and based out of a single city. I'd give them penalties, so they didn't commercially out-compete Venice, Genoa or Pisa, etc, but they could still put out a few trade posts in home waters. That'd be realistic, too. Hell, the major Bulgarian war between Leo the Wise and Symeon, was owed to a trade dispute.

Byzantine wickedness is close to my heart, so I'll be taking a bit more time to really make it nice. But I've already got the basic framework working, where the AI could theoretically recreate such a situation in a plausible and logical fashion. And honestly, since it results in a faction claimant, and faction claimants have a good chance of getting imprisoned and blinded...I'm pretty happy with the AI side of it. As an observer, it looks good already.

If you're a player in the position of Michael, you're gonna get screwed one way or another, if your mom, or step-mom goes off the reservation. Your best, maybe your only bet, will be to try your luck as a faction claimant (which the AI does already), and hope something so disastrous happens, that you start looking like a more appealing option to the masses.

This is partly why I want to add a vassal opinion malus, if you lose a war. So this could possibly result in say Romanos taking power, losing a fight against the superior Seljuks, and taking such an opinion hit, that the Michael faction gets a bump, and starts some trouble.

But like I said. I'm trying to stay focused, and until after SMWH is updated for the Sons of Abraham (for sanity's sake), not add anything which would be incompatible with other current mods. So I'm trying to rein myself in, before I start messing up people's on_actions, opinion modifiers and cb_types, etc. Unless I can figure out a non-intrusive way, that can slot into people using mods like PB or VIET equally. The easy way is adjusting the reverse_demand effects in cb_types to add a temporary character modifier, but that'd screw everyone up.
 
Last edited:

Dhop84

Major
2 Badges
Dec 28, 2012
788
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 500k Club
Awesome this game has been crying out for something like this especially after the let down of LOR which hasnt even come close to the feel of the empire (well the way id like it to be ) everything you have said you have and will implement is spot on and will add so much to the feel of being the Basileus great work
 

Damocles

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2001
6.905
217
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
Awesome this game has been crying out for something like this especially after the let down of LOR which hasnt even come close to the feel of the empire (well the way id like it to be ) everything you have said you have and will implement is spot on and will add so much to the feel of being the Basileus great work

Funny thing is, it's all perfectly doable, and I'm not even on the same level as a Wiz or Meneth. It's journeyman difficulty at best, even with my most elaborate plans. I was surprised to find it hadn't been done yet. Given that the lack of it, pretty much eliminates 1/3rd of all major historical dynastic tribulations from ever happening.
 
Last edited:

Azarias59

Field Marshal
31 Badges
Mar 8, 2013
2.771
1.501
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Update:

I'm going to give it about 2-3 days, for some judicious testing, and seeing if anyone comes up with something I forgot, and then I'm going to release a basic version of it, that I have stripped down to be as stand-alone as possible, and thus potentially slot into any other mod, without needing anything conflicty, like defines.

I got it working tonight pretty good though. Minor titles with the born in the purple code, while I could make one that gave it to the Co-Empress, sadly, have no effect on the succession unless it's one of your children you give the title to. But that's all right.

I'm handling the initial version as basically an elaborate decision, and aimed mainly at the ai. I'd like to eventually turn it into more of a plot-type shennanigan, and do it around the time I do a bunch've similar work to make regents a lot more nasty and mean. The player will be able to usurp, under the same elaborate conditions as the AI, but I'd ideally like to eventually have the AI use the decision, and the players use a more difficult plot mechanic. That said, I think the way I have it set up is perfectly fair and historical. Having it be a plot would mostly be to take into account the idea of other courtiers, who like your wife way more than you, trying to keep you from seizing the reins.

The way I have it right now:

Usurp Spouse
Conditions:
* You're a man. (I'm assuming you're an adult, if you've got a spouse to begin wtih).
* You belong to religion_group christian.
* You're not a prisoner.
* You have 100 Prestige.
* Your spouse's primary title is higher than baroness. Everything at the baron level is kind've a weird, inchoate soup in CK2. Eventually, I intend to try and see if I can make the baronage a more disruptive and destabilizing force, but that'll be later.

* You have to not be an idiot or incapacitated. Inbreds, imbeciles, slows, naive appeasers, indulgent wastrels, amateurish plotters and detached priests aren't going to receive the popular support to supplant the last female scion of the old dynasty.

* You can't have serious health issues, and you can't be distracted. So wounded, maimed, blinded, castrated, ill, pneumonic, stressed, depressed, etc, are all out. They've got other problems. No celibates. You won't be able to propagate a new dynasty (my own mod doesn't even allow celibates to marry. Although, they can become celibate while married).

* You can't be humble with a proud wife.
* You can't be craven with a brave wife.
* You can't be slothful with a diligent wife.
* You can't be shy with a gregarious wife.

Psychology suggests that in those circumstances, whatever your other virtues, the wife will be the emotionally dominant partner in the relationship and isn't going to stand for you telling her councilors to start reporting to you for now on. Not that you would dare in the first place.

* YOUR WIFE: She can't be ambitious, quick, a genius or a grey_eminence. Failing that, If she has at least two of the following three traits in any combination with each other (Diligent, Proud, Brave) AND at least 8 in both Martial and Intrigue, she'll be considered a Caterina Sforza type, and not be pushed out. Players will eventually have a plot where they can try anyways, but if the wife meets these requirements, she'll have the potential to kick your ass in a way one that doesn't, will not. You better hope she isn't cruel or an impaler...or the court could get a new eunuch, instead of a royal jester.

Content wives will always bow out gracefully. As well as those with any two of the following three traits in any combination, (Shy, Craven, Humble). Provided you're not equally pathetic, a wife being an imbecile, infirm or incapable will cancel out her above defenses.

If all these requirements are met, your spouse will abdicate to you all her powers and responsibilities - It's a man's world, and you're a man's man. You'll decide that she should spend more time knitting with her ladies-in-waiting, and less time at council meetings.

Revenge of the Spouse

Right now, I have it to where if you are infirm, incapable, blinded, maimed or castrated, or are otherwise unable to produce a heir, and have either no heir, or your primary_heir is like this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_VII - then an ambitious spouse, younger than 40, will take over the reins of government. She'll then either marry one of the leading notables in the realm - or failing that, a dashing and brilliant young scion of the lesser nobility...who'll proceed to do everything for her that you couldn't.

The only consolation is that if you did have a heir (and hopefully he was landed), he'll get a claim and the resentment to go with it.

The first version of this will also be a decision, and aimed mainly at the AI. Although, if your dynasty has gotten to the point where you're being shoved aside as an invalid, heirless cripple and cuckolded on your death bed, then you may have bigger problems already.

The version I want to aim more at players, also has to do with some regent stuff I'm working on, and will be more plot power oriented as well, with an event chain, if you have a dynasty member losing out. If you are completely heirless...that's just the end of the line. I considered tying it with an adopt-type mechanic, and maybe I still will. But that gets sort've cheesy. Your main responsibility, in CK2, is to propagate your dynasty, and if you fail that badly, a game over seems fair. I imagine most players will be hard pressed to get to that point before quitting anyways.

But this will allow the wider world of AI to play out in historical permutations, that the engine currently doesn't allow.

The two events can work together quite wonderfully, in that the old emperor goes infirm and doddering. His wife takes power from him. He subsequently dies. She marries a dashing up and comer, and then he replaces her.

This sounds awesome.
 

Pode

Lt. General
70 Badges
May 3, 2005
1.473
91
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • 500k Club
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Majesty 2
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Magicka
  • Pride of Nations
  • War of the Roses
  • Sengoku
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Dungeonland
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
I am intrigued and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Seriously, this looks very interesting and I'll be watching for the minimalist version with anticipation.
 

Damocles

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2001
6.905
217
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
UPDATE:

Right now, when the event fires, it will seem at first initially, that your wife loses all her titles, including her hidden consort 'title' that say, causes the wife of a Duke to be called a Duchess, and the wife of an Emperor to be called an Empress. She'll go right back to being 'Empress or Duchess' whoever the very next day.

It has to be this way, so that the spouse, and any potential heirs, all get the appropriate claims on the titles, so that factions can form around them. It also gives her and any potentially previous heir a title claimant opinion penalty against you, which is perfectly appropriate, but it's also why I'm not doubling down on it and adding an additional malus on top of it.

If your wife has an adult male son outside your dynasty, she won't be usurpable, unless he's more pathetic than you or a child. If he's an amazing child, then he'll probably try and kick your ass when he turns 16. She has no such protection if her primary heir, is your child.

If he's a moron, you probably don't have much to worry about, except for someone else forming a faction around him. Which the AI does a decent job of, provided someone dislikes you enough to get the ball rolling. (In base, un-modded game, I think the opinion threshold required is like, 25, before they become the potential instigator of a plot. In my own mods, plots are far more lethal, and so require an actual negative opinion).

What I'm mostly working on now, is figuring out a way to keep the mod self-contained and minimalist, while allowing for the 'Revenge of the Spouse' event chain, where she potentially marries a leading conspirator against you while on your death bed, or a randomly generated young stud, to play out in a satisfyingly aesthetic fashion.

A couple ways I had it working for my own game, had some core files tweaked to accommodate it. But it's been an interesting experience.

What it looks like, is that there will be no way of keying it off major land-owning conspirators, and getting them to divorce their spouse and marry the empress instead, without going into multiple different original files, all heavily used by every current mod in existence. At least for now, I may need to just restrict it to the 'young up and comer stud'.

I'm not too broken up about it. There are strong arguments to be made in favor of most usurpers being essentially of the latter variety. Even Romanos Diogenes was basically that. He didn't own several provinces in Anatolia. He just starts off with those huge tracts in land as a major landowner because hey, it's the only way to get him to exist in game. IRL, he was in a prison cell awaiting his mutilation, when the Empress summoned him to her.
 
Last edited:

Damocles

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2001
6.905
217
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
UPDATE:

I discovered a neat way to handle some things. Rewriting the event chain, so that those close to the spouse, may attempt to obstruct your actions in a less deterministic fashion.

Again, to even get this ball rolling, you have to meet all the previous conditions, So you're already going into this with the law on your side, and from a position of marital strength. This event chain has no chance of firing if your wife is the dominant partner in the relationship.

The order goes something like this:

1) Your wife's lover will attempt to obstruct you if not incapable or craven, or suffering serious health issues. And if he's not you.
2) Your wife's father will attempt to obstruct you if not incapable or craven, or suffering serious health issues.
2) Your wife's adult son attempt to obstruct you, if he's not your own heir, and if he's not content, a bastard, weak, imbecilic or seriously sick.
4) Your wife's adult brother will attempt to obstruct you, with similar conditions.

If a woman has somehow inherited the throne to begin with, it's quite likely that aside from a possible lover, she'll have no living family to protect her interests. (Remember, this event chain only begins if she's already in a weak position against you, as described in a previous post).

5) You're her regent. BOOM. The reins of power are already in your hands. Taking over proves effortless.
6) Someone else is your wife's regent. You must deal with them.

7-9) You're her marshal, chancellor or spymaster. Having already so much of the reign's power concentrated in your hands, whether in the diplomatic, dastardly or military spheres, there is little effective opposition to your interests, in the absence of your wife's dynastic partisans. Much like being your wife's regent, it's more or less a done deal.

She might have any number of courtiers or vassals that dislike you more than her, but they're being left alone unless they meet one of the above criteria. If it's serious enough, they'll find their way into a plot or a faction against you. Legally, you're well within your right to take over, and it was if anything, the expected course of action. If you're the wrong culture, wrong religion, or they just don't like your face, the game already has opinion maluses for that. That said. Especially if you're the wrong culture or religion, that opinion hit alone is usually enough to get a faction party started around your wife.

Her liege also has no say in it, if he doesn't meet one of the above criteria. Where the liege would have had a say, is if you were allowed to marry her in the first place, depending on the marriage laws of the country. CK2 handles this less than perfectly. Kings were notorious, for instance, for refusing permission for their vassals to marry, in the hopes their line might die out and revert to the crown. If he dislikes you for other reasons, you may still be in a bad place, if your kingdom allows title revokation. But he won't get an additional malus against you.

10) None of the above applies, and your wife still has a living mother. And her mother would ordinarily not be usurpable, in her position. She'll act on her daughter's behalf.

11) None of the above applies. You're still dominant over your wife, so you'll be able to take over, you may lose a county or two, or some wealth, to an ambitious councilor.

----

I'm also considering adding an event chain, not unlike the above, and with a similar order of potential rivals, whereby if none of them are either alive or willing to take him on, a girl's regent will marry or betrothe himself to her. If there is anyone who might obstruct him, (a living father, brother or son who aren't incapable or supremely indisposed), he won't dare. Even if they are craven or sick. She'll need to be more or less alone in the world.

If he marries her, and doesn't usurp her, it'll just be a fait accompli. If he does usurp her, her potential heirs (whoever they may have been) will get claims.

The only reason I hesitate, is if some people might be traumatized, by having their ambitious regent marry them against their will. So it might be an AI only thing. But it's not like you can't start a plot to kill him, when you're older.
 
Last edited:

emperorj90

First Lieutenant
5 Badges
Oct 3, 2009
201
142
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
Great ideas!