Workers not getting to work has no consequences!

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Co_Karoliina

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The crowded bus stop issues seems like a but to me, I'll investigate it further. At the very least there should be a warning it stops get crowded, so players can react. It's not like you could monitor bus stops for ages in a bustling city!

Service vehicles do count towards the 65k, because they use the pathfinding logic. People is parks for example don't even when you can see them, but they are technically at a location and doing idle animation, not using pathfinding.

If citizens don't reach shops, they do not buy anything. People getting stuck in traffic get teleported back to where they came from, unlike mentioned in a previous dev diary. We changed this mechanic very late in the production, the traffic was worked on until the very last minutes :)
 

Epicity

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Why not just make industries abandoned if they have no set amount active workers arriving(it doesn't need to be 100% of workforce)? Commercial zones already do that if they have no customers. And so does industry if they have no goods and no deliveries.

What makes workers to industrials so different?
 

consi

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Why not just make industries abandoned if they have no set amount active workers arriving(it doesn't need to be 100% of workforce)? Commercial zones already do that if they have no customers. And so does industry if they have no goods and no deliveries.

What makes workers to industrials so different?

Yes. Being so much rookie friendly only damages this game. And it's a beautiful game that has a lot of potential, don't ruin it please.
 

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Why not just make industries abandoned if they have no set amount active workers arriving(it doesn't need to be 100% of workforce)? Commercial zones already do that if they have no customers. And so does industry if they have no goods and no deliveries.

What makes workers to industrials so different?
robots!
those constantly absent lazy human arses eventually gettin kicked from their jobs by evil t800 everywhere
and we are at space-lift era, so ok

+1 btw
 

Co_Karoliina

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Our concern is that 65k of citizens will not be enough to supply active workers to each industry buildings within reasonable intervals. We have worked a lot on this feature and there sure is some room for improvement, but quite a many things have been tried and thought of. But keep the suggestions coming, we are very open to tweaking features, but just want to make sure the game will not break :)
 

Nague

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Ok fair enough.


But i think you dont have enough trust in your players abilities, we need more punishment for bad cities and especially road design and rewards for good designs.
I think once a sim leaves for work, it is very well in my responsibility and ability to get him to work in a reasonable amount of time, thats half the game for me!




IF you really dont want this to be in the game, consider adding API functions to mod it, please.
A lot of us really want a harder and deeper game and the techical side of this game totally supports it.
 

iemfi

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The current goods system is brilliant, the number of agents walking around feels just right, and the teleporting is not an issue, the lack of consequences is the issue. I would like at least a proper hard mode which makes the game harder and punishes you for not getting workers to their jobs.

Industry needs connections to receive raw materials and ship goods to outside locations or businesses in the city. For the most tax revenue, you should produce raw materials locally, have industry make them into goods and have local shops sell them. The shared save (Worker bug) has a city that does not even cover the upkeep of the roads with the industry taxes because they do not ship to local commercial areas.

The problem right now is that it's very easy to exploit the fact that residential buildings don't need a connection anywhere. Residential areas which have all roads leading to dead ends is strictly superior to residential areas connected to the rest of the city. It seems kind of silly that accidentally building a one way road which cuts a residential area off from the rest of the city is actually a good thing. It also just doesn't feel "right" that when you're trying to plan your city the trucks are the only important things, the cars are all completely unimportant.

The dev also mentions that you need the industry chain to make the most money. But with the difficulty level of the game you can have zero industry and still be making bundles of cash.

It seems the decision was made to ensure that the city didn't death spiral at all. I understand why they made that decision (especially after watching the streamers play) but now that it is out we need a proper hard mode. After all look at Dwarf fortress, there's a whole game which people adore just for people to watch their city death spiral!

What would be nice would be difficulty settings (proper ones which don't disable achievements!):
  • Easy: Current normal mode
  • Normal: Current hard mode
  • Hard: 50% more costs. In addition to the current goods buffer, industrial and commercial buildings should have a "work buffer". Each time a worker reaches his workplace it should either increase or lower this buffer, if the workers teleports it should lower this buffer. Trucks/service vehicles not returning to their homes (teleporting) fines the player some money.
  • Dwarf fortress: The above, but worse!

Also when the game assigns workers, trucks, etc. to a route it should check that the route back is valid. No designing cargo stations, which teleport the trucks home. If there is no valid route then the worker should not be assigned in the first place, ideally when you make a one way ending in a dead end nothing should even spawn there.

The buffers should also be explained in the in game tooltips.
 

Nague

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Our concern is that 65k of citizens will not be enough to supply active workers to each industry buildings within reasonable intervals. We have worked a lot on this feature and there sure is some room for improvement, but quite a many things have been tried and thought of. But keep the suggestions coming, we are very open to tweaking features, but just want to make sure the game will not break :)


How about adding something to the dispatched workers, like:


worker gets to work really quickly after leaving: bonus to worker household
worker gets to work in OKish time: neutral
worker gets to work late: penalty to worker household
worker gets to work really late: penatly to worker and industry
worker never gets to work: worker loses job maybe, industry abandonds if it happens too often



BTW thanks for reading, when i voiced my concern to maxis, they ignored me completely pfffffffffff
 

Molano

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Our concern is that 65k of citizens will not be enough to supply active workers to each industry buildings within reasonable intervals. We have worked a lot on this feature and there sure is some room for improvement, but quite a many things have been tried and thought of. But keep the suggestions coming, we are very open to tweaking features, but just want to make sure the game will not break :)

Thanks for your replies so far. Great to see the interaction with the community.

Like some others have said i'm in the "give us some more challenge" camp :). Maybe you could author a few mods yourself with some tweaks we could try? Like a no despawning mod, a industry needs workers more regularly mod and let us play around with it? Anyone looking for challenge / harder rules could playtest these things out and if a particular mod is liked enough you could add it to the core game as a setting?

At this time the game does not provide a lot of challenge to me which will hurt the longevity of me playing it. However i will be gifting the game to my mom soon and i'm sure she loves it just like it is :).
 

Skrelk

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The current system really is much too easy.

Karoliina,

What about using the cims that do go to work as a statistical sample, and extrapolating that to all the cims that work at a workplace.

What adding an option to allow the player to increase agent simulation, so those of us with more powerful computers can take full advantage of it?
 

consi

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Totally a +1! Deeper simulation with more meaninful consequences are a lot to me too when it comes to simulation. I have to plan my city to be rewarded and if any case I fail at it to be punished by the simulation itself.
 

Epicity

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How about adding something to the dispatched workers, like:


worker gets to work really quickly after leaving: bonus to worker household
worker gets to work in OKish time: neutral
worker gets to work late: penalty to worker household
worker gets to work really late: penatly to worker and industry
wprker never gets to work: worker loses job maybe, industry abandonds if it happens too often

I think the problem isn't the traffic is literally the sheer number. There's not enough room allowed on the road to be able to even reach their own workplace.
 

GAGA Extrem

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Service vehicles do count towards the 65k, because they use the pathfinding logic. People is parks for example don't even when you can see them, but they are technically at a location and doing idle animation, not using pathfinding.
Allrighty, thanks for the clarifiycation.
So all the people need is 65.000 men and women at a demonstration to end my evil dictatorship great and merciful rule over the city...
*takes some notes*
 

Skrelk

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I might have phrased my last post badly.

Could an option be added to allow players with more powerful computers to increase the amount of cims being simulated over the 65k limit?
 

Epicity

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I assume 65k is enough to supply goods to commercial and industry? But chucking atop workers on that would just result in a lot of loss businesses?

Is it possible to increase the cap for powerful computers and add in industrial treating workers like resources? Either for modding or patch? Not quite sure how strong the mod api is.
 

Co_Karoliina

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I can't promise anything, we are currently very busy with the patch, but new mods made by us are not impossible :) There's one super hard mode mod on the workshop, has anyone tried that out? I haven't had the time yet, but making mods based on the pre-made mods is not too hard, so you could try some tweaks and see if the game is then more to your liking.
 

Epicity

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Like some others have said i'm in the "give us some more challenge" camp :). Maybe you could author a few mods yourself with some tweaks we could try? Like a no despawning mod, a industry needs workers more regularly mod and let us play around with it?

Seeing how most issues are related, with 65k cap and supply and traffic. The mod will have to be quite damn impressive :p It all comes down to how strong the mod api is.
 

Alfa55

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With a city that has a million citizens, the 65k of individuals is still the cap of people at once on the streets. We have tested this a lot and cities look nice and lively with this number, and it keeps the system requirements decent. And the 65k does not take into account people who are inside a building, so someone can go to work, and while they are inside the workplace, working, they do not take up any room and another citizen can start a journey somewhere. The original worker will not leave for home until there's room, meaning there's less than 65k people traveling. The 65k is not per week, but a number of simultaneously simulated individuals on the streets.

Everyone still exists even when not on the streets, they retain homes, names, workplaces and family relations, you just cannot see the people when they are inside a building.

What is the ratio between citizens in your city and citizens that travel? Is that a fixed number? Cause otherwise it would be weird that a city of a million has the same amount of people on the streets than a city of 100k. So I guess there is a ratio and that the 65k number is only when you're city reached like a million people?

BTW: I guess that approach is not even unrealistic. In real cities people are also not always on the roads but mostly inside buildings. So the technical limitation made it actually more realistic. ;)
 
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trigorin

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My problem is still that with population of around 130k only max. the half of people can be outside. Above 650k less then 10%. It seems to be unrealistic.
Assuming, that a city with so big population is also very big, the streets also become dead. So we get a very large metropolis with sparse or empty streets.
 
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