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Co_Karoliina

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If you bulldoze the buildings, if there's demand new ones will appear that have the buffer full. It is not a very interesting way to play the city, but you can play like that if your wish. We might be adding a demolition cost to help with this, because it should not be something the game guides users to do. I'll have to take a look at the delivery trucks, they might have something funky going on!
 

Teodosio7

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If you bulldoze the buildings, if there's demand new ones will appear that have the buffer full. It is not a very interesting way to play the city, but you can play like that if your wish. We might be adding a demolition cost to help with this, because it should not be something the game guides users to do. I'll have to take a look at the delivery trucks, they might have something funky going on!
I don't believe anybody would ever do that, unless they had a very small city. It would be just too time-consuming.
 

kissof

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Feb 13, 2015
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If you bulldoze the buildings, if there's demand new ones will appear that have the buffer full. It is not a very interesting way to play the city, but you can play like that if your wish. We might be adding a demolition cost to help with this, because it should not be something the game guides users to do. I'll have to take a look at the delivery trucks, they might have something funky going on!
What about this question? could you tell us how would it work past 65k please? :huh:

thank you for your feedback co_karoliina

if i got a city of 100 000 people, do i get to see 65k at all time rushing around the city? and the other 35k are "simulated' in buildings?
or do the game show "statistical" people visually on the streets?

does every cim i see in the game is an agent and the other are "simulated" in buildings?

same as a population of 1 million people? how does it actually work if i reach this number?

what if i have a big city, will i see less people on the streets because it stops at visually showing 65k people?

thank you
 

EvilTom

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65k agents can be simulated? So if you have a city of 1 million (which I've never seen anyone achieve yet) only 6.5% of people are actually simulated at any one time? I can accept that depending on what the other 'idle' people are doing

Say for arguments sake you can only have 1 person simulated at a time in a town of 10 people.
If they leave their home and go to work this ties up the "1" agent simulated restriction whilst they're travelling. The other 9 are at home and cannot move. Then does the "simulation slot" then free up when that 1 agent reaches their destination and therefore only used whilst travelling. Or is it tied up until they then get home again? In other words I'm fine with 65k people out and about travelling at once, but where is the idle state? Is it whilst they're not travelling, or when they're only at home?
I would not be ok with only 65k people being out and about at one time and say being at work and then no-one else could come out of their home.

Edit: I suppose i'm asking the same question as kissof above me, but got ninja'd
 

shelter

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I'd say the issue more than just computing power needed, If you look at the streets they are already crowded with cars and as they support 9 tiles officially I don't think any road network in the game would be able to deal with 1.000.000 sims running/driving around. Not everyone is outside at the same time of course but still.
 

PForsberg

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65k agents can be simulated? So if you have a city of 1 million (which I've never seen anyone achieve yet) only 6.5% of people are actually simulated at any one time? I can accept that depending on what the other 'idle' people are doing

Say for arguments sake you can only have 1 person simulated at a time in a town of 10 people.
If they leave their home and go to work this ties up the "1" agent simulated restriction whilst they're travelling. The other 9 are at home and cannot move. Then does the "simulation slot" then free up when that 1 agent reaches their destination and therefore only used whilst travelling. Or is it tied up until they then get home again? In other words I'm fine with 65k people out and about travelling at once, but where is the idle state? Is it whilst they're not travelling, or when they're only at home?
I would not be ok with only 65k people being out and about at one time and say being at work and then no-one else could come out of their home.

Edit: I suppose i'm asking the same question as kissof above me, but got ninja'd
I understood it like the is a maximum aug 65k Cims communintg somewhere. So in your example it would be the one cim who goes to work. After he reaches his destination another cim can start a jorney somewhere and so on and so on.
 

Inge Jones

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If you look at the streets they are already crowded with cars
[strikethrough]Now that's something that puzzles me. How come in a real city of a certain amount of people, traffic can get through the roads better than a simulated city of the same geographical size with fewer people simulated?[/strikethrough]

Stupid me I know why - it's cos the time runs much faster so they actually have to make their journeys faster. I wonder if the time went slower in the game it would increase the number or Cims that could be simulated during a single day, because the calculations wouldn't have to be done any faster
 

Co_Karoliina

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With a city that has a million citizens, the 65k of individuals is still the cap of people at once on the streets. We have tested this a lot and cities look nice and lively with this number, and it keeps the system requirements decent. And the 65k does not take into account people who are inside a building, so someone can go to work, and while they are inside the workplace, working, they do not take up any room and another citizen can start a journey somewhere. The original worker will not leave for home until there's room, meaning there's less than 65k people traveling. The 65k is not per week, but a number of simultaneously simulated individuals on the streets.

Everyone still exists even when not on the streets, they retain homes, names, workplaces and family relations, you just cannot see the people when they are inside a building.
 

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Ok, thanks for shedding some light on the situation Karoliina. I think we all have to realize an agent based system for 1 mil population has it's limitations. Also if people wish to exploit the system it is their right, this isnt a highscore based game where everything has to be fair.

However i would like to tell you of my first city where these limitations and the game design influenced my city in a way i did not enjoy. I was happily making my city and focussed on a good road network. At some time i unlocked busses. I made a big mistake in my bus network that i made long lines which required way more busses than the game spawns as default. Also it was the only public transport option, so i got the "crowded busstop" thing. Not a problem, i enjoyed seeing it and went on my way. I noticed however that traffic all around my city was pretty light and did not run into any problems. After playing for a bit longer and making the switch to high density the traffic just did not seem to really increase much. Especially near my industry there we're a lot of trucks but rarely any workers at all. I started investigating and started following some cims from their home to see how and if they get to work.

The first cim i followed went to the overcrowded bus stop and waited for a while and despawned. He tried again a bit later and despawned again. I followed some other people and i noticed a LOT of people i followed just couldnt reach their destination. I saw kids going to school who graduated while at the busstop without ever reaching their school.

Now the thing is, i understand the safety net of despawning cims (allthough would love a way to disable it for a hardcore mode), but i designed a horrible public transport network and it didnt have any adverse effects on my game. In fact it had a positive effect on my game. All those people waiting for the bus did not really contribute to traffic, they got nowhere but did make sure i didnt have any traffic issues, and the businesses didnt mind noone (or hardly anyone) ever getting to work.

I hope you guys consider balancing this out a little, or what might be the best idea in my eyes is a difficulty setting for traffic rules, where you could use the current system or make it a bit more challenging.

In the end i made a city without any public transport and it's a lot more fun to me because now at least i got some congestion and problems, which is bad for my service vehicles, which in turn adds difficulty for me even though i still find the game very easy.
 

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[strikethrough]Now that's something that puzzles me. How come in a real city of a certain amount of people, traffic can get through the roads better than a simulated city of the same geographical size with fewer people simulated?[/strikethrough]

Stupid me I know why - it's cos the time runs much faster so they actually have to make their journeys faster.
Possibly because in a real city of 10K you don't get a call to the hospital every couple of minutes and, in general, people spend most of their time standing in some place as opposed to traveling around?

The time scale is completely different and that changes everything. You have to account for that.
 

kissof

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Feb 13, 2015
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With a city that has a million citizens, the 65k of individuals is still the cap of people at once on the streets. We have tested this a lot and cities look nice and lively with this number, and it keeps the system requirements decent. And the 65k does not take into account people who are inside a building, so someone can go to work, and while they are inside the workplace, working, they do not take up any room and another citizen can start a journey somewhere. The original worker will not leave for home until there's room, meaning there's less than 65k people traveling. The 65k is not per week, but a number of simultaneously simulated individuals on the streets.

Everyone still exists even when not on the streets, they retain homes, names, workplaces and family relations, you just cannot see the people when they are inside a building.
thank you for answering that :) you just shed some light on that! :)
 

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While I certainly agree that roads should be more than cosmetic decorations, I do think we should be careful what we wish for here; otherwise, it might become more of a traffic simulator than a city simulator, kind of like Sim City 2013, and we most all know what fun that was. :cool:
But managing traffic is one of the biggest parts of running a city. So it should play a major part in the game.
 

PForsberg

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Mar 12, 2015
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Ok, thanks for shedding some light on the situation Karoliina. I think we all have to realize an agent based system for 1 mil population has it's limitations. Also if people wish to exploit the system it is their right, this isnt a highscore based game where everything has to be fair.

However i would like to tell you of my first city where these limitations and the game design influenced my city in a way i did not enjoy. I was happily making my city and focussed on a good road network. At some time i unlocked busses. I made a big mistake in my bus network that i made long lines which required way more busses than the game spawns as default. Also it was the only public transport option, so i got the "crowded busstop" thing. Not a problem, i enjoyed seeing it and went on my way. I noticed however that traffic all around my city was pretty light and did not run into any problems. After playing for a bit longer and making the switch to high density the traffic just did not seem to really increase much. Especially near my industry there we're a lot of trucks but rarely any workers at all. I started investigating and started following some cims from their home to see how and if they get to work.

The first cim i followed went to the overcrowded bus stop and waited for a while and despawned. He tried again a bit later and despawned again. I followed some other people and i noticed a LOT of people i followed just couldnt reach their destination. I saw kids going to school who graduated while at the busstop without ever reaching their school.

Now the thing is, i understand the safety net of despawning cims (allthough would love a way to disable it for a hardcore mode), but i designed a horrible public transport network and it didnt have any adverse effects on my game. In fact it had a positive effect on my game. All those people waiting for the bus did not really contribute to traffic, they got nowhere but did make sure i didnt have any traffic issues, and the businesses didnt mind noone (or hardly anyone) ever getting to work.

I hope you guys consider balancing this out a little, or what might be the best idea in my eyes is a difficulty setting for traffic rules, where you could use the current system or make it a bit more challenging.

In the end i made a city without any public transport and it's a lot more fun to me because now at least i got some congestion and problems, which is bad for my service vehicles, which in turn adds difficulty for me even though i still find the game very easy.
This started another Idea in my mind, like a generic "punishment" for bad infrastructure:

How about Cims never get educated before they reached the preschool at least once? The would be a flag for every single Cim saying if he ever was at a preschool. And before that happened he never gets educated. Same for highschools and unis.

Then there is the commercial areas. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Cims go to shops to buy certain things. The shops get their good from indutstrial areas or import them, right? So is there a kind of "stockpile" in each shop saying how many good there are left? I imagine a system where a shop only orders goods from factories, when the amount auf available goods sinks under a certain point (10% or whatever). Factories deliver a certain amount of their goods to local shops and export the rest. On the other hand the Cims would travel to a shop to buy something there. Everytime they do this, the stock in the shop is reduced, but only if the Cim really reaches the shop. So again if the Cims are all stuck in traffic or at busstops, they will not buy anything. So no tax revenue from the selling but also no more demand from the shops to the industry. After a certain amount of time the industries will start to decrease because the is not enough demand present in the city. And again this is all because of a bad infrastructure.
 

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With a city that has a million citizens, the 65k of individuals is still the cap of people at once on the streets. We have tested this a lot and cities look nice and lively with this number, and it keeps the system requirements decent. And the 65k does not take into account people who are inside a building, so someone can go to work, and while they are inside the workplace, working, they do not take up any room and another citizen can start a journey somewhere. The original worker will not leave for home until there's room, meaning there's less than 65k people traveling. The 65k is not per week, but a number of simultaneously simulated individuals on the streets.

Everyone still exists even when not on the streets, they retain homes, names, workplaces and family relations, you just cannot see the people when they are inside a building.
Do city services (police cars, fire trucks, etc) count towards that 65k limit?
 

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With a city that has a million citizens, the 65k of individuals is still the cap of people at once on the streets. We have tested this a lot and cities look nice and lively with this number, and it keeps the system requirements decent. And the 65k does not take into account people who are inside a building, so someone can go to work, and while they are inside the workplace, working, they do not take up any room and another citizen can start a journey somewhere. The original worker will not leave for home until there's room, meaning there's less than 65k people traveling. The 65k is not per week, but a number of simultaneously simulated individuals on the streets.

Everyone still exists even when not on the streets, they retain homes, names, workplaces and family relations, you just cannot see the people when they are inside a building.
this is great news. Thank you for the answer.

I'm very glad the developers are taking the time to answer our questions. It serves to lessen our frustration and confusion.

I now feel that just a few tweaks are perhaps needed, but the underlying simulation is a decent compromise between performance and fun/playability.
 

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With a city that has a million citizens, the 65k of individuals is still the cap of people at once on the streets. We have tested this a lot and cities look nice and lively with this number, and it keeps the system requirements decent. And the 65k does not take into account people who are inside a building, so someone can go to work, and while they are inside the workplace, working, they do not take up any room and another citizen can start a journey somewhere. The original worker will not leave for home until there's room, meaning there's less than 65k people traveling. The 65k is not per week, but a number of simultaneously simulated individuals on the streets.

Everyone still exists even when not on the streets, they retain homes, names, workplaces and family relations, you just cannot see the people when they are inside a building.
However this may prevent cims to do what they need to do (working, shopping, leisure, etc.),right? And how about product deliveries? Can the delivery be delayed because of such limitation? And service cars?
Are agents prioritized when the system lets some go back to street?
 

trigorin

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This limitation also means that the more the population is over 65k the city becomes more dead.
How do you make it that these 65k people are moving around in the city in "equipartition" way? Just to prevent to see empty sections in a city with very large population (like 1M).
 
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