I was not adressing your post, but discussion as a whole, it seem to be derailing to usefulness discussion.
Women in Aviation. Seriously?
- Thread starter Pyramid_Head
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
No they didn't, very few women served in the infantry. Tank commanders, Fighter pilots, AA duty, special forces (specially snipers), etc yes, 800 000 of them, but foot infantry/riflemen? almost none, because of the issue stated before.
I do agree the focus should give another 3% boost to manpower on top of the cosmetic aces.
That's interesting. I did not know that.
Something interesting about the strength thing, was that in the Soviet air wings that had female pilots, that flew the Pe-2 aircraft, they sometimes required the navigator to assist the pilot during take-off to pull the control column back. Though I think that points to a design fault with that particular aircraft. Should also be noted that some other Soviet aircraft of the time had similar design issues, so maybe the Soviet aeronautical engineering knowledge of the time had a bit of difficulty getting aircraft balance right.
I am surprised this has still not been fixed. It's clearly a completely useless focus, which gives not real benefit. It needs to be beefed up to at least be worth considering.
In my multiplayer re-balance mod, i added 25% ace generation chance to this focus. It seems to make it worthwhile now. Really thats all Paradox needs to do to make it a good focus.
Even early to mid-war T-34s had that issue with the transmission IIRC, so maybe Soviet lever manufacturing techs were a bit behind
?
I said front line...manpower use goes into support units too, including; hospitals, logistics, signals, and of course tank crews and machinegunners in the main line.
Also remember its not just about history, so its ok if women serve a more significant role in this game...just like its ok if you advance build 1944 tanks in 1940.
I am not sure of the exact percetntage, I think each percent is about a million manpower for soviets?
Last edited:
Soviets have a base of 171 million manpower in 1936, so 1% is roughly 2 million. 1-2% would be fair, considering that the Soviets probably would have taken on more women as the situation got more desperate.
If you're pulling that many people out of the workforce there have to be output repercussions to balance the focus.
The game has focuses and laws that allow you to draft way more than that without repercussions.
Every random fascist minor can call up 7 extra percent with no repercussions. And New Zealand can do 9 or 10 extra percent for free. Canada can hit crazy recruitment if it sends in the zombies and smacks some sense into Quebec and not pay a dime of production penalties it didn't already face before doing that.
However, perhaps as a template for boosting Women in Aviation, we could look at the Australian Women's Army Sevice as that also incorporates women into army roles, which instead of boosting recruitable population directly, boosts the recruitable population factor. So if Women in Aviation was worth 20% recruitable population factor, disarmed nation would, in effect, actually be worth 1.2% of population as manpower and extensive conscription would be worth 6% recruitment. At the most extreme, scraping the barrel would yield 30% of population as manpower instead of 25%.
Last edited:
Every female tank commander, commissar, fighter-pilot, AAA gunner, sniper etc meant an equivalent number of males that could serve in the line-infantry brigades (in theory).
I'd dare say that the manpower boost would've been on a 1:1 ratio had it not been for cultural reasons where staff services, medics etc were filled with more women than would've been the case had they all been men. When viewed on the strategic scale the Soviet women's contribution to the war effort was huge compared to other nations of the day and if the focus is meant to represent even a fraction of this then there should indeed be some boost to MP and NU.
Ideally they would get a great bonus to the pilot pool, but that has not been implemented yet.
The whole "women in aviation" approach is faulty, in my opinion. It is way better and more versalite to add simple "We can do it!", "Women draft" or other general focus that will represent women serving in military or replacing men at the factories.
Women in Aviation is such niche of a focus that it's like adding serving african americns for USA or Ghurkas for UK as a separrate focus and providing nothing but portraits or some generic army template for free.
Women in Aviation is such niche of a focus that it's like adding serving african americns for USA or Ghurkas for UK as a separrate focus and providing nothing but portraits or some generic army template for free.
Why would you choose national focus with severe negative effects when it is virtually impossible to end up without manpower in HoI4?
Everything can be ok if done right, but i can imagine all the misogynist history-ignorant ppl crying foul and giving pdx a headache, i personally don't mind, i'm an equally opportunity autocrat, everyone fights no one quits.
Soviet population 1941: 196 million, 0.1% would be 1.96 million, historically 800k served in the military so i guess 0.5% would be accurate, then again, there is a focus on that line that already gives 0.5% extra manpower.
Lets keep in mind that Stalin made a mess of the Soviet statistical office to hide the low population growth due to the holodomor and collectivization.
The game has a monthly population growth of only 0.012% so in-game the Soviet Union in June 1941 has 173.2 million, taking this into account maybe the bonus should be 1%.
Last edited:
Not only that, the Soviets increased production dramatically during the war even as their GDP fell like a rock, children and old people all went to work to the factories under living conditions and to a scale that no western society has ever had to do, completely unreasonable under any circumstance, except perhaps a fight to prevent your extermination as a people (in-game they should have a focus that gives them -10% consumer goods to reflect this i think) and they had extremely efficient manufacturing processes coupled with the largest industrial complexes ever, uber-concentrated industry right next to the mines that produced the raw materials, grinding work schedules and a completely different work ethic than the Germans, while they build cheap, reliable and good machines that would brake down in 5 months (so they could plan the maintenance schedule very accurately) the Germans build expensive, complex, good but unreliable machines that were supposed to last years even though in combat they would be destroyed in about 3 months and could break down at any moment.
Keep in mind they did all this while their richest provinces were under occupation by the Nazis, 30% of the pre-war GDP was under occupation. Its really insane and not acknowledge in the west the dramatic and epic struggle they had to go through.
What i mean to say is that output is not just about how much people you cram into a factory, and that you can pull people away if your machinery allows for either automation or children and old people to handle it.
Last edited:
Which I also take issue with. You can conscript forces to a point but when you start digging into the 50% of the population that's untouched in addition to more severe conscription it just magnifies the economic effect. There's a reason the United States didn't conscript nearly as many people as it could have.
Which I also take issue with, see above.
Because if we're assuming balance is going to be fixed at some point you want focuses to reflect the balance you want. The Soviets ran into severe manpower problems by the end of the war and indeed didn't have enough people in certain sectors which had significant economic ramifications during and especially after the war when foreign aid ceased. While this certainly isn't how the game currently works I hardly think anyone, devs included, are satisfied with the current balance where most games I play the Eastern Front is over by 1942 at the latest.
Let's talk about SMERSH focus. What was the design decision to include focus that just completes itself after succesful purge (read "every time")? I can't imagine ever more useless focus.