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FangirlCrazily

Second Lieutenant
Community Ambassador
Feb 7, 2023
107
2.571
Hello Everyone!

It’s been a week since Primal Fury released and we’re happy to see how much everybody has been enjoying the Content Pack & Update. As you might have seen in the General Discussions the new Leadership Clash has been a bit of a hot topic. We’ve read through the feedback and have come up with a couple of changes to tackle the concerns raised.

We’ll be making the following changes to the Leadership Clash:
  • Leadership Clash only applies between Heroes. This means that you can have your Ruler and a Hero in the same stack without penalties.
  • Leadership Clash will now apply to AI Rulers. This applies to any Ruler versus Ruler Combat, in battles against the Independents the effects will be disabled.
  • Hero Acquisition Cooldown. AI Rulers will no longer be able to hire multiple Heroes in the same turn. The duration of the Cooldown will depend on the difficulty of the AI. (Not implemented yet)

It’s important to understand that there’s little time for us to address feedback regarding these changes. We can make changes/tweaks until Thursday 7th End of Day (17.00 CET) so if you have any feedback please give it sooner rather than later.

Detailed Instructions on activating the Open Beta can be found here. Feedback & issues can be posted in the Open Beta Discussions and Patch Notes can be found below.

Game Version: 1.006.002.90698




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Leadership Clash
  • Rulers no longer have Leadership Clash
  • The AI will now suffer penalties from Leadership Clash, however to compensate for the AI really not understanding it very well, these penalties will be disabled when it enters auto-combat vs independents




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Art
  • Fixed an issue with Animation Blending on Mounted Ranged abilities
  • Fixed an issue with Vertex Explosions occurring when using Melee abilities on certain Mounts
  • Fixed an issue with incorrect Lighting being used in Events
  • Fixed an issue where Avian Zombie’s would not have legs
  • Fixed an issue where Gaia’s Chosen not be visually affected by burn
  • Fixed an issue with Gaia’s Chosen Helmet Clipping
  • Fixed a bald spot on the Sun Priest
  • Fixed an issue where the glow from Linked Minds was applied to the hair

Faction Content
  • Fixed an issue where Crocodiles, Mammoth and Elephants Hero Mounts did not have the correct movement.
  • Fixed an issue where, once built, a province couldn’t be swapped to a Farm if the player has Desolate Adaptation or is of the Sabertooth Primal Culture.
  • Fixed an issue where Army Race Customization was not getting saved properly
  • Fixed an issue where the Dragon Ruler Affinity would not resolve correctly

Item Forge
  • Fixed an issue with Polearms in the Item Forge allowing Giant Slayer Infusion while they already have Giant Slayer inherently.
  • Fixed an issue with the Blowgun, Crossbow and Bow in the Item Forge not having the correct preferred attack.
  • Fixed an issue where Item Forge and premade Staves were not getting the correct damage channels.

Interface
  • Fixed a crash that could sometimes occur when entering the Create a Bounty panel when there is a Beacon of Unity bounty target.
  • Fixed a crash that could occur due to the Quest Overview remaining open.
  • Fixed a crash that could occur when an outpost was being converted to a city but a player would have the city interface open.

Hero Skills
  • Fixed an issue where having the Avatar of Primal Animal would remove Primal Communion if you are a Wizard King or a Dragon Lord.
  • Fixed an issue where Crossbows did not benefit from Searing Weapons

Multiplayer
  • Fixed an issue where the game could get stuck without a combat result screen after replaying the same combat twice.
  • Fixed a common crash when combat ends and the world map is out of sync.

Pantheon
  • Fixed an issue where realms using Presence Traits that add additional cities would all be named Flotsam.
  • Fixed an issue where Ascended Rulers would sometimes get linked up to the wrong default ruler causing them to receive incorrect (visual) settings.
  • Fixed an issue where Ascended default Rulers would not always receive an Ascension trait.
  • Fixed an issue where it was not possible to delete a Ascended Ruler if they were invalid
  • Fixed an issue where the Main Menu would not be visible after a completed game fails to save to the Pantheon
  • Fixed an issue where Pantheon Realms would appear as a Unlockable Reward

Spells
  • Fixed an issue where Unleash Beast would not give the Berserk status effect properly
  • Fixed an issue where Desecrate Structure would not stop if the province was razed or the city changed owner.
  • Fixed an issue where Bind Ancient Wonders would not be removed if the structure was occupied or the city owner changed.

Units
  • Enfeebling Howl from the White Wolf unit and mount can no longer affect friendly units.
  • Mistlings will no longer teleport away when they retaliate to incoming melee attacks
  • Primal Darter can no longer use disengaging shot on the water
  • Fixed Siege Towers not acting during Combat

World Map
  • Fixed an issue where Bind Golden Ancient Wonder would not properly add +50 Knowledge income to the city it is annexed to.
  • Cultural Marauders (Bandit Stacks) can no longer have Primal culture enchantments as they were spawning multiple of different subcultures. We will be investigating this issue and hope to have it only gain one Primal unit enchantment in the future.
  • Fixed a crash that could occur when a unit gets temporarily transformed upon death and then permanently transformed.
  • Fixed a crash where the system would try to process a spell that was no longer valid.
  • Fixed a crash where the system would try to process unit information while they were already dead and removed from the map.
  • Fixed post-combat rewards not being provided properly upon completion.


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Leadership Clash will now apply to AI Rulers. ...

Lol, with how AI likes to make hero stacks this would end up with the whole hero army routing after loosing one unit. xD

Also please make "you can recruit new hero" reminder stop if possible, it is extremely annoying.
 
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Waaait, so it was bug that not all default rulers from before patch got ascension traits?

...That makes sense, but I already deleted those, so um... Ooops? x'D Means I won't get to find out what their default ascendion traits would have been (Aelfred got marty as default for example, so it amused me some of them got fifth tome unlock ascension traits :D), especially since wiki doesn't even acknowledge official factions and most people don't seem to bother collecting them

(ah well, its all good, I would have already run out of space with only 50 rulers in pantheon :'D Though would be nice to have full set of official rulers plus my own ones, so still hoping for higher pantheon ruler cap eventually)
 
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Waaait, when was Noctus turned into pantheon recuitable hero from remnants & ashes story realm 2? :D (I was just replaying it for funsies as I was collecting my pantheon heroes)

(maybe one day we can collect all npc only rulers into pantheon xD One day)
 

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I often see AI rulers with 5 - 7 heroes split over their stacks in fights, may want to limit that if possible.

It's good the AI is following the visible rules again though. Always takes the emersion away seeing them blatantly acting outside the rules of the games world.
 
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I would've settled for the AI simply spreading its heroes more as i suggested, but this is a fine step forward.

I'm sure the AI will catch up with this new behaviour.
 
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Expecting AI going into oblivion with that change.

I think it will benefit the AI in the end plus battles are fair play again with both sides having the same ruleset.
For battles this is hugely important.

Plus the development of AI is ongoing.
 
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Why not let people play the way they want to? It would be nice to get a toggle to have leadership clash on or off for those who want to enjoy a roleplaying aspect with a party of heroes. A toggle of on and off would be beneficial for everyone.
 
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So sounds like the core issue is: AI not does not understand hero stack penalties, so "Clashing Egos" can really hurt the AI. But there is a balance-based need for the player to NOT easily have hero stacks of doom that wipe the floor with the AI's armies.

Some suggestions to thread the needle:

- KEEP IT: I think Leader + 1 hero avoiding penalty is good
- KEEP IT: The AI should be affected by clashing egos
- Make the morale penalty -5 per additional hero. The experience penalty can stay as-is: I anticipate that the lost experience hurts the player more than the AI, especially since the AI has economy boosts, so can afford to readily hire higher-level heroes as they become available.
- Let the AI get an additional "cheat level" or two on their heroes when Resurrecting or Animating them
- Let the AI get a "cheat level" on their heroes when first recruiting them
- Give the AI heroes +1 tier starting equipment upon recruitment, so it's harder to kill them, but doing so is more rewarding (NOT the leader, since that equipment will never drop before player defeat)
- Bring back Assassins as trainable units, who have Hero Slayer. The player can strategically deal with AI stacks of hero Doom.
- Give us a handful of new tier 4/5 units that have Hero Slayer, same reason as above.
- Give us new (shadow?) spells that debuff heroes, particularly hero status resistance

As a player, I personally HATE it when the AI seems to be "playing a different game". I complained hard about the AI Advantage/Disadvantage being a default, just find it no fun to play with when I've switched it on.

But I also see the practical need for some asymmetry, because AI-player behavior code is hard and testing it is probably way harder. So if you're going to buff the AI with bonuses, make them as stealthy as possible?
 
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Random ideas

1- Have heroes after the 2nd act on their own in battle as their (clashing) with others.

2- just have an experience penalty for clashing heroes.

3- limit each army to 2 heroes unless you take a culture perk that allows more?
 
I really like the leadership clash mechanic and I think removing it for leader + hero is a bad idea. I like the increased value it gives to other units, especially early game. I'm actually bothering to fill out two stacks early and it's excellent. Please do not remove or weaken it in any way.
 
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At this point I'd rather block heroes in one army completely. 1 army - 1 hero. I don't see any point of destroying the game variety, considering heroes are t5 at level 4 and t7 at level 16

Also, please consider removing Chaos eater from weapons. It's too broken right now (since you can jump in with blink and cast it the same turn, dealing 100+ damage per unit without any problems).
 
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Oh right never commented on clash: Funnily enough, i never liked to do multihero armies because I felt like I wouldn't be getting full benefit of leadership bonuses and such, but I felt like "am I playing game wrong? AI is doing it all the time" because i preferred having single hero per army :'D So it was actually kinda nice clarification for me that no I wasn't playing game wrong per say
 
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It makes sense for a leader to don't have a clash for leadership. It is the ruler after all.
It makes perfect sense as it is now.

It also plays great i might add.

Very cool to see a ruler with a complementary hero by its side.
Very cool to see the egotistical nature of the heroes as well.

Let's not forget the plethora of fixes included.

Triumph defeating bugs:

 
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Is casting the blessed reinforcements spell still crashing? I can’t see it mentioned but perhaps I missed it or it’s touched indirectly by another fix.

This is the beta. The patch was few days ago. Should be fixed now.
 
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Since the removal of charge resistance, the large trait is more of a hindrance compared to the small trait. I think for some units the large trait should be removed, like all elemental spirits and watcher. And the earth titan should get heavy charge.
 
Hello Everyone!

It’s been a week since Primal Fury released and we’re happy to see how much everybody has been enjoying the Content Pack & Update. As you might have seen in the General Discussions the new Leadership Clash has been a bit of a hot topic. We’ve read through the feedback and have come up with a couple of changes to tackle the concerns raised.

We’ll be making the following changes to the Leadership Clash:
  • Leadership Clash only applies between Heroes. This means that you can have your Ruler and a Hero in the same stack without penalties.
A problem here is that two heroes in a stack is a significant boost to early game wonder clearing, which is one of the quicker ways to sequence jump into higher tier units, which leads to a stronger main stack, which is a boost to early game wonder clearing etc etc. If it's free and bronze and silver structures are balanced around sending a ruler + hero combo then that will really limit early game hero placement, especially since it must be your leader as one of the two. That's my big issue. On the other hand if it's free and bronze is balanced around one hero and a bunch of t1s and t2s then a ruler/hero combo will just clown on them.

I know the intent here is to give more options but, especially with the hero recruitment changes, it's also adding a bunch of new soft limitations.

So yeah it should probably be like any other power jump and cost a culture trait or affinity unlock, or probably the best/easiest option is a Ruler-unique support levelup with a couple of other support prereqs. So you can do a buddy cop show or you can split them up and put that resource boost elsewhere.
 
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The trouble is that Leadership Clash doesn't actually do anything but make things more tedious for the player, who can just split up the heroes into three separate stacks just before combat and only merge them temporarily for army spells such as Favorable Winds. The only exception is Ancient Wonders, but thematically that's exactly where you would expect a party of all or mostly-heroes to go.

The reason we make hero-only armies is that including non-hero units is very punishing to hero XP gains. Instead of trying to punish multiple heroes, I think it would be more productive (and less complicated for the AI) to make including non-hero units less punishing. This could be done e.g. by having all the heroes in a battle split a fixed fraction of the XP between them. You'd lose the brinksmanship of trying to defeat enemies while using as few non-heroes as possible, but you'd gain an incentive to split up your heroes on different fronts in order to secure more total hero XP. Ancient Wonders would be equally rewarding in terms of hero XP whether you brought one hero or four.
 
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