Wiz's Jan. 27th twittter spoiler

[aprogressivist]

You lose/downgrade other ethics to stay at 3 points.

Prefers to downgrade rather than drop ethics unless you have the opposite ethic. Otherwise random.

I'm curious as to how it works if you embrace factions that are actively opposed to your current Ethics.

Let me do some examples: if I'm Earth and I start of as Fanatic Egalitarian/Xenophile, and I embrace the Authoritarian Faction, would that reduce the current ruling ethics to regular Egalitarian/Xenophile? Or would it jump all the way to Authoritarian/Xenophile or even Fanatic Xenophile?

i.e. could embracing a Faction opposed to your current Ethics reduce you to less than 3 Ethic points?

 

[Me_]

Prefers to downgrade rather than drop ethics unless you have the opposite ethic. Otherwise random.

Perhaps you could add a popup that would force you to choose one ethic to downgrade/remove.

 

[Nirmara]

Perhaps you could add a popup that would force you to choose one ethic to downgrade/remove.

I would much prefer this than the random approach. After all, if you are bringing new peoples into your government, some members of the previous administration will have to be fired in order to enable changes to take place.

 

[Me_]

I would much prefer this than the random approach. After all, if you are bringing new peoples into your government, some members of the previous administration will have to be fired in order to enable changes to take place.

Aaaand.... you shouldn't be able to choose which ones get fired?

 

[Everstill]

So, we have to Save and reload until the game choose the Ethics you want to keep? Choosing makes much more sense. The player is playing in the role of the government, it simple make sense they choose the new policies they embrace.

Question to @Wiz

It will happens instantly? Like, you are a Pacifist, you click the button and BOOM, now you are militarist? You should make a time to transition (Government types too!) just like any other Project. In this time, there should be a chance to events, like Strikes against the change, people demanding that you stop the change, domestic terrorism to stop the change, Planets loyal to a cause rebelling and becoming independent, etc...

Also, factions overtrowing the Government, like the Military doing a coup and changing the Ethics and the Government to a Military Type. The player don't "lose", it simple change the leaders, ethics and G.T. and the name of the Empire.

 

[The Founder]

Interesting.

I wonder if you start with a ruling faction?

Remember that this was already pointed out back in the Ethos rework. It might be worth re-reading that Dev Diary:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-54-ethics-rework.987286/

Basically Loyalist is replaced by wichever faction your have the highest atraction/happiness towards.

Prefers to downgrade rather than drop ethics unless you have the opposite ethic. Otherwise random.

With exception of the opposite Ethos, sounds highly problematic.
For the AI you kind of have too do it random. But as player you should be able to choose.

Maybe add a free "lessen Ethos" action?
So in addition to fully adopting a new ethos for cost and with cooldown, you could just lessen a existing conflicting one?

Say you play as Fanatic Xenophiles. And you have a Xenophobic Faction forming:
The first action would be to "lessen Xenophilia" to normal.
Second it would be to neutral.
Third then it would be about adopting it.
Fourth it would be about adopting the Fanatic one.

You could also create a certain "possibility space unrest", where every other faction will try to fill the Ethos void created by you downgrading one. There is a Empire Ethos slot up for grabs.

I'm curious as to how it works if you embrace factions that are actively opposed to your current Ethics.

Let me do some examples: if I'm Earth and I start of as Fanatic Egalitarian/Xenophile, and I embrace the Authoritarian Faction, would that reduce the current ruling ethics to regular Egalitarian/Xenophile? Or would it jump all the way to Authoritarian/Xenophile or even Fanatic Xenophile?

i.e. could embracing a Faction opposed to your current Ethics reduce you to less than 3 Ethic points?

Keep in mind, Ethics divergence is being reworked already. You always have possitive atraction to your Government Ethos, even as Individualist. So actually getting that Faction support higher then 20% to being with is hard enough if they are opposite to yours.

It propably goes "it will happen if you act like it". Like a Xenophile not using Migration Treaties being shifted towards

@Wiz
What will happen if your government does not match anymore? Like moving from Fanatic Indivudalist to (normal) Collectivist?
What about Ethos Locked reserach? (i.e. Monument of Unity) Will you keep the buildings/tech or be unable to use them if you flip Ethos?

 

[Insane Commander]

How are we supposed to wait for this update?!?

 

[The Founder]

How are we supposed to wait for this update?!?

View attachment 233809

In a state of perpetual hype. Of course "they best" will likely be parts of the DLC.

Remember, Paradox is in Sweden. They do not worry about the US election as much as even an average European. Much less an American. So they are well rested to drive that train

 

[MAHak]

Will this affect the AI personalities, aren't they tied to ethics? Or is the changing of ethics only available to human players?

 

[BrassGecko]

How does this interact with the forced ethics changes from a War in Heaven, or accepting an Awakened Empire as your overlord in general? Wait out the cooldown and try to shift back? Barred from changing them unless you manage independence?

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Will this affect the AI personalities, aren't they tied to ethics? Or is the changing of ethics only available to human players?

I would assume that should an AI empire ever change ethics, its personality will be recalculated (the same way Liberated civilizations get a new personality).

 

[Amor_Fati]

So... Vicky 3 confirmed?

 

[smjjames]

I would assume that should an AI empire ever change ethics, its personality will be recalculated (the same way Liberated civilizations get a new personality).

I agree here, the mechanic is already there.

How does this interact with the forced ethics changes from a War in Heaven, or accepting an Awakened Empire as your overlord in general? Wait out the cooldown and try to shift back? Barred from changing them unless you manage independence?

I'm guessing we'll have to wait and see on that.

 

[zukodark]

What will happen with the government, considering you might lose that ethic?

 

[henzington]

What will happen with the government, considering you might lose that ethic?

I assume you would be forced to pick a new one.

 

[Melabranche]

Is there other way to suppress (delete / exterminate if colectiv) faction other than influence?

 

[Xoatl]

Interesting.

I wonder if you start with a ruling faction?

In the factions Dev Diary it was stated factions will spring up as the game progress. So likely all starting POPs don't have a faction.

 

[The Founder]

Is there other way to suppress (delete / exterminate if colectiv) faction other than influence?

That was mentioned with the new Purge system: Nope.
The goal is that you will always have faction and diverging ethics to deal with. But that it also will not be completely random anymore (as it is now with Ethics divergence).

If you act like a Xenophobe the Xenophobic Ethos has a high atraction, the Xenophobic Faction has a high atraction and the Xenophobic Faction pops will be happy far beyond the 50%.
If you do not act like a Xenophobe, then over time you have the option to change your Ethos away from Xenophobe. Towards something closer fitting your lived ethos.

If you do not want problematic factions, start living to your claimed Ethos. Or claim the Ethos to match what you are living.

 

[Tim_Ward]

Anyone else finding it increasingly hard to get anything out of 1.4, knowing everything that's going to be in 1.5? Colonizing stuff, mining stuff and starting wars for no reason seems a little empty when compared to political manoeuvring, constructing space habitats and charting philosophical course of a future civilisation.

 

[Melabranche]

That was mentioned with the new Purge system: Nope.
The goal is that you will always have faction and diverging ethics to deal with. But that it also will not be completely random anymore (as it is now with Ethics divergence).

Then this is marginalization, if not totaly out of purpose, of goverments and some ethics.