Wiz, the Portugal-India Core event is ridiculous

[TheMeInTeam]

Feel free to specify where I did that. Quoting my entire post and responding with 4 non-sensical sentences is lazy. I said the event should give a claim rather than a core in a previous post. That response you quoted was targeted at a claim that it was an inappropriate event as it was targeted at firing "hundreds of years into the game" when in fact the situation it is trying to replicate happened within one hundred years. I didn't say they should just get the land dude.

Post I quoted was not the one discussing the claim, but rather that the Portuguese conquest of Goa was somehow a foregone conclusion while westernization (as the game represents it, a costly transition to practices that makes future teching less expensive) isn't plausible, that they'd be able to take this territory in alternative history even if the situation in India and for Portugal were different.

Claim or core, this territory should never fall into Portuguese hands unless Portugal declares war with coring range and takes it.

 

[yerm]

Does no explanation of how indicate there's some new mechanic involved that hasn't been made public yet?

Hopefully they get free cores in Africa, to balance it out and all, and maybe some in Brazil for good measure.

Post I quoted was not the one discussing the claim, but rather that the Portuguese conquest of Goa was somehow a foregone conclusion while westernization (as the game represents it, a costly transition to practices that makes future teching less expensive) isn't plausible, that they'd be able to take this territory in alternative history even if the situation in India and for Portugal were different.
Claim or core, this territory should never fall into Portuguese hands unless Portugal declares war with coring range and takes it.

You make a good point. They should get free cores leading to it, so it is in coring range, and maybe some free armies when they declare war on the target to simulate the historical rivals helping them. Then give Spain a PU event on them a bit later than Aragon's, ideally in the 1600s.

 

[josh127]

Hopefully they get free cores in Africa, to balance it out and all, and maybe some in Brazil for good measure.

What? None in Siberia? It's an EU4 classic though.

 

[NightKev]

Hopefully they get free cores in Africa, to balance it out and all, and maybe some in Brazil for good measure.

Is this not just making the problem vastly worse?

 

[PerryCaravello]

Is this not just making the problem vastly worse?

I think it was a joke

 

[yerm]

Is this not just making the problem vastly worse?

I think it was a joke

Half joking.

I don't consider it a problem in the first place. Portugal getting Goa for free strikes me as totally in line with other DHE railroading and honestly on the lighter and better end of it - it puts them in the Indian ocean at a reasonable historical time, while things like the free PU+integration or the obscene Burgundian inheritance are overboard. I'd rather the Swedish cores in Denmark and Castillian in Granada go away before the Portuguese are muscled out of a free dot in India.

With that said...

I find the arguments that it's bad because they aren't in range or it makes Portugal too strong and similar veins to be nonsense. The problem is not and never was coring range and its just a technicality being thrown around to try to tack more justification onto its removal. The REAL problems are early westernization, unfair handholding to a Western colonizer, alternate history being railroaded, selective DHE bias... not coring range.

So, while I was joking, I actually would be completely cool with them being handed things like Sofala for free too. Maybe throw a successful Dutch revolt some free Malayan turf, and give Lenape to Sweden if they take exploration just because.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Half joking.

I don't consider it a problem in the first place. Portugal getting Goa for free strikes me as totally in line with other DHE railroading and honestly on the lighter and better end of it - it puts them in the Indian ocean at a reasonable historical time, while things like the free PU+integration or the obscene Burgundian inheritance are overboard. I'd rather the Swedish cores in Denmark and Castillian in Granada go away before the Portuguese are muscled out of a free dot in India.

With that said...

I find the arguments that it's bad because they aren't in range or it makes Portugal too strong and similar veins to be nonsense. The problem is not and never was coring range and its just a technicality being thrown around to try to tack more justification onto its removal. The REAL problems are early westernization, unfair handholding to a Western colonizer, alternate history being railroaded, selective DHE bias... not coring range.

So, while I was joking, I actually would be completely cool with them being handed things like Sofala for free too. Maybe throw a successful Dutch revolt some free Malayan turf, and give Lenape to Sweden if they take exploration just because.

No. Coring range is a legit, if tertiary, consideration. It's an example of the game bypassing its own restrictions to give special treatment. Westernization, which you cite, does not do that in any capacity. That works within the rules completely, while this event giving cores at 900+ range or more in some circumstances readily bypasses the rules.

Is that as important as the other reasons it's problematic? No. But it's still a reasonable point against this NDNHE.

 

[yerm]

Right, but it's hardly a big deal. It's just tacking on an additional grievance. If everything else about it was totally cool, nobody would care if coring range violation was the only concern. Since people are upset that it gives Portugal a free area, that they get it without a fight, that it allows westernization, that it's way outside their colonial empire... tack coring abuse onto the pile.

 

[esharhaddon]

Perhaps the "neighbour bonus" should be...well, what it's name actually implies. You get the tech cost reduction from actually neighbouring more advanced nations instead of being in the same tech group as them....

Isn't this the way it works now? As long as the neighboring province is connected to your country via a land bridge to your capital?

using some console magic ... Portugal and GB are tech 23 and Mughals is tech 20 in the screenshots

In my Indian tech group games where I am not planning on westernizing, I normally sell a random 1 base tax province to some western nation who takes the India mission for the nicer neighbor bonus.

edit - (I realized I needed to add this extra pic ... neighbor, but not connected to capital)

 

[A-150]

what if eu4 (or eu5) were to have a tech tree? Maybe like Empire Total War or Civilization: Beyond Earth?

 

[User4035]

Well all they have to do when the province switches to portugal is have it instantly turn into a trade company so the Ai cannot westernize.

 

[NightKev]

Well all they have to do when the province switches to portugal is have it instantly turn into a trade company so the Ai cannot westernize.

The issue is that Portugal DOESN'T get control of it immediately, it's still controlled by [insert indian nation here] but now it has a western core in it that then allows westernization. Not that this itself is the main issue with this event anyway...

 

[bestbrian]

The core is the issue. My giant Vijay was able to spontaneously Westernize, just because Portugal got an event. An event that they weren't in any position to benefit from (they were a 3PM in a war with France at the time).

 

[NightKev]

Ah, true, I suppose it's a bigger deal if the player is in a position to take advantage of it rather than the AI.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Ah, true, I suppose it's a bigger deal if the player is in a position to take advantage of it rather than the AI.

It's not that big of a deal to experienced players, who can use exploration to rush-westernize faster than the event fires (though doing so will also trigger it, the difference is small at that point) or conquer so much while holding non-mil tech low that conquering an arbitrary province in the spice islands or even through Mamluks is a viable possibility.

 

[dhead22]

At the very least make it so that Goa doesn't defect to Portugal while I, as a Western power, am occupying it.

 

[VolitionNewlove]

At the very least make it so that Goa doesn't defect to Portugal while I, as a Western power, am occupying it.

Would love to hear the story about the rebels who defected to Portugal just because a Portuguese guy didn't pay the customs fee that one time...