Compared to Burgundian Inheritance/Iberian Wedding awfulness, this is small potatoes. The RotW shouldn't be full of cupcakes for westerners, so early westernization is actually a good thing for game balance.
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Wiz, the Portugal-India Core event is ridiculous
- Thread starter PerryCaravello
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It is a game, right, but come on? Westernization fest all over india in 1500s? This is total bs. Westernization has to be more than clicking button and some stupid flat events.
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Westernization isn't a good mechanic. The RotWers should have a smaller tech penalty and better units, but in the absence of real change at least widespread westernization makes them less of a joke.
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There is just no need to make the history that accurate after hundreds of years the game has started. I think devs are too concerned with history. The game starts in 1444, and the world is supposed to vary a lot at 1500s.
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And as the developers and this being their game, they can be as concerned as they want to be.
Of course, that doesn't mean you should stop bringing up issues. However one should not get angry if things such as this one do not get addressed.
This event can fire within 100 years of the game and historically this situation did happen within 100 years of the game. The events leading up to Portugal's involvement with India were underway for decades prior and were being successfully managed. By 1484 they'd have Cape Verde and Fernando Po as well as interests in the african mainland. By the turn of the century they were into East Africa. What would cause them NOT to get into India? Even being annexed as a sovereign wouldn't stop it, they'd do it from within the sovereign. There was money to be made. They fought against a Venetian supported Arab fleet in the Indian Ocean to secure their trade around South Africa and won. It could have gone the other way there, but that was just a blip on the eventual European trading horde that would become invested in India.
Westernisation is quite bad and these countries all becoming western is not even close to a better way to represent them. Of all this territory, only Thailand didn't get wrecked by the Europeans (though this was due to pragmatic diplomacy, not an effective military).
It's not terrible that they roll over South/Southeast Asia, it is terrible that everyone rolls over inland Africa though. Conquering inland African territory was ridiculously implausible in this period, and one of the reasons was that there just wasn't any money in it. Machine guns, railroads, vaccines, etc. were critical to controlling the vast inland territory of Africa. 90% of European conquests in Asia were based on control of coastal trade, which was WAY easier, and what Portugal's asskicking in Asia was based upon. The first time Portugal landed in India things went poorly, yet it was still worth 60 TIMES the cost of the expedition. Nothing was going to stop that. They could fail cascade and still make bank.
Westernisation is quite bad and these countries all becoming western is not even close to a better way to represent them. Of all this territory, only Thailand didn't get wrecked by the Europeans (though this was due to pragmatic diplomacy, not an effective military).
It's not terrible that they roll over South/Southeast Asia, it is terrible that everyone rolls over inland Africa though. Conquering inland African territory was ridiculously implausible in this period, and one of the reasons was that there just wasn't any money in it. Machine guns, railroads, vaccines, etc. were critical to controlling the vast inland territory of Africa. 90% of European conquests in Asia were based on control of coastal trade, which was WAY easier, and what Portugal's asskicking in Asia was based upon. The first time Portugal landed in India things went poorly, yet it was still worth 60 TIMES the cost of the expedition. Nothing was going to stop that. They could fail cascade and still make bank.
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So finally I'm in the new forums. Just a test to see what I look like. Just move on 
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to be honest, I think they didn't realise a nation can westernise of a province that has western core inside it.
Isn't that a bug they should have fixed long ago?
Isn't that a bug they should have fixed long ago?
It may be historical but it's not satisfying gameplay. The endgame already lacks tension.
Well, you're still supposed to be able to Westernize off provinces conquered from Westerners, and getting a Western core by other means than conquest isn't that common.
I think he said somewhere (maybe suggestion forums) he would try to railroad the AI to go colonize in that direction. They know current solution is "lazy" one.
I know, but in this case you never conquered it from a western power, and Portugal never owned it. That makes it weird.
I'll admit nothing has ruined my game more over my past three campaigns than seeing a westernised india by 1650 and a westernised Africa by 1700. As far I'm concerned the mechanic is too easy and needs to be for the moment made much more difficult until a new mechanic can replace the current tech system.
Also a claim on Goa rather than a core makes much more sense.
Also a claim on Goa rather than a core makes much more sense.
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Indeed, I never got WHY portugal gets a CORE there.
In my current game i see England taking india claim mission, they attack india several times, but don't take land since they can't CORE any claims, due to having NO colony within range to core the indian land.
My solution: change the india mission. When a colonizer takes it, they get claims all over coast. The mission will be changed that IF a colonizer then takes a claim there in a war, that the colonizers sees all taken claims made into a core. So, IF they attack Indian nation then and take claims, the mission ends and the MISSION ending gives them cores there.
In my current game i see England taking india claim mission, they attack india several times, but don't take land since they can't CORE any claims, due to having NO colony within range to core the indian land.
My solution: change the india mission. When a colonizer takes it, they get claims all over coast. The mission will be changed that IF a colonizer then takes a claim there in a war, that the colonizers sees all taken claims made into a core. So, IF they attack Indian nation then and take claims, the mission ends and the MISSION ending gives them cores there.
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Having a core next to a westernized nation core requirement for westernizing is just silly anyways.
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AI takes misson. Attacks. But doesn't take the claims because of lack of range.
Your solution is to have the mission give the cores as reward.
Don't you see the problem? If the AI doesn't take the provinces because of lack of coring range, how will they complete the mission and get the cores?
If Portugal is already in our around the Cape then they should be able to core it from there by that point in the game.
It isn't too hard to "hardcode" that, is it? If the AI activated the mission and has sufficient warscore, they will take at least one province in the peace deal. Then they have the core and then the AI should continue on itself.
Otherwise, the main problem for europeans to arrive in Asia is colonizing their ways around Africa, in which they are very bad. So the solution could be just some more missions to encourage the AI to hop around the cape rather than colonizing just bordering provinces and going into Africa. And if you don't like this way of encouraging historical behavior, the AI needs some rework about calculating where it can profit most. And if it already does that but still prefers Africa over Asia, then the african provinces maybe need some really serious disadvantages, so the AI just wants to have some coastal bases like in reality and doesn't care about the inland of Africa for the next decades.
It isn't hard to code that I guess. I just suggested this to give an alternative to a core in Goa that people can westernise from early on, when playing ROTW. The core there makes no sense, whatsoever.
Alternatively, maybe accepting the mission gives the involved colonizer CORES all over India that expire within a few years. But this can be abused by a colonizing player to core entire india..
Feel free to suggest a solution yourself
In this game Portugal was not in India, yet they received a core there through a scripted event. I would want Portugal to try to get a core in India through missions, just as a player might, but no scripted free candy which doesn't make any sense in dynamic scenarios.
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