Wiz, for the love of all that is good and holy, fix this please
- Thread starter Darkath
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That's why i wasn't replying to you. If you have no interest in "Byzantine Empire" just don't answer it, just like i didn't answer your first post
Thats why I put the note there
I know. I'm only saying that the term "Byzantine Empire" was used in EU4 timeframe as a name of the Eastern Roman Empire. Again, I put the note ther on purpose.
Well, I think EU4 is a good game, but sometimes you will have to live with these things. It shows that the devs are humans, and nobody is error-free, not even Wiz (or in this case probably someone else, Thomas or Johan). I don't think anybody of the devs thought people actually called themselves Cosmopolitain or that anyone would think it was the most appropriate term, but they went with this. Why you ask? Well, for the same reason they once called the Merovingians non-historical descendents of gods (or something along those lines). It can sound ridiculous and hilarious, but it is true, and I think we need to respect that everybody is different and has a different basis of knowledge. They are only coders, I don't think Thomas, Johan or Wiz are actual historians, and those who do the research for the game focus on other things. None wanting to have the absolute best grand-strategy game out there would use this name seriously, but having that conception can also be a limit that would enforce a lot of things upon the studio. Truly, it serves as an example, not only of the simplicity that the studio once was, but also how it has evolved and changed. I think this is a reasonable request, but also that you need to put yourself into Wiz's situation and make a decision from that and out of that.
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Japanese is also a culture, but its culture group is also called Japanese. Wow. How confusing.
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'French' is probably an appropriate term, considering that as a culture and language it wasn't even terribly extensive during EU4's early timeframe, being mostly concentrated around Paris and it's localities. I'm not even sure that it was considered anything more than a language (as opposed to an identity) by many, given the fractious cultural and linguistic nature of the generalities.
This is off topic, thanks for your understanding
This seems appropriate, thanks !
Yes I agree, but i would be confusing to have the same name for culture group and culture (in japan this is a non-issue since it's the only culture in the group)
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Yes, but that is besides the point. Saying today that culture in french territory is Cosmopolitain, is the same as saying in 1550 that the ERE was called Byzantine Empire.Thats why I put the note there
But honestly, a discussion about how a culture or a dead empire should be named, is the definition of absence of subjects to discuss about.
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The official language of the French nobility and administration. Not a culture.
Even then the people of Anjou or Picardy still spoke their Oil dialect just as much as the Normands or the Bungundian,
Problem is again that first Cosmopolitaine culture is much bigger than Ile-de-France except if you have a wider sense of Paris's surrounding that I do.
And second while the French national identity has started to appear from at the very latest with the hundred years war. Cosmopolitaine is already a very culturally diverse culture if we are to judge on purely linguinstic standart.
Which is mostly what culture is about in EU4. Ie what language and customs the local nobility and administration have, not the local people. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to change it for X diplomatic power.
Cosmopolitaine is neither a culture or a language.
Then you can delete all French sub-cultures and replace them with French.
I am fine with that.
Or did you think that Middle French was not used in Normandy, Burgundy and in the south of France ?
I agree and I already gave an alternative. But it's not because Cosmopolitaine is wrong that other exemple here are better.
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A bit late for Gallo-Roman or a Gallic culture group proper, it would only cause confusion. Just because Cosmopolitaine is wrong and weird, it does not mean you can put in whatever weird old cultures that are even more confusing and not really historical for the period either.
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You have more leeway with the naming of cultural groups since they are more or less loose associations of several cultures. For instance "Latin" could be a cultural group covering most of southern europe if the game had less granularity.
Culture names however appeared in lots of place in the interface, which magnify tenfolds a naming issue ("Cosmopolitaine Brazil"; "Cosmopolitaine Nationalists" etc.)
The main thing Oil and Oc had in common was their gallo-roman roots, that's why it could be relevant, but i'd rather we or paradox find a proper word to replace Cosmopolitaine rather than to change all the name have "French" in paris.
In the XVth century certainly not all the local nobility used middle french as a primary language in southern france. Later in the XVIIth you can find records of noble from Versailles that thought going to southern france was like going to a foreign country, highlighting the cultural gap between the capital and its provinces.
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Normand culture could be justified by the existance of the "Charte aux Normands" which granted some privilege to the lords of Normandy and some degree of autonomy (fiscal, judiciary etc.) from 1315 to 1789. More symbolic than anything this charter was nevertheless often brandished as a token of Norman culture in case of crisis and unrest during the first half of the EU timeframe.
Burgundian has no reason to exist.
For all these culture to be meaningful however they should NOT be accepted in a so called french "cultural union" it never existed and the King or central administration of france never accepted the existence of other culture ever since the Villers-Cotteret Ordinance which forbid the use of other language than french in administration in 1539 (which is akin to force converting the culture of all province in EU4).
If France accepts all French cultures by default, you might as well remove all the cultures.
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You don't ask much, Darkath, but as the french people on this forum are not as much a pain in the ass as the various serbs, bosnians, british or hungarian fanatics, I don't see how it could succeed.